GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby cprice12 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:59 am

Oaklandblue wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:Things I am hoping for:

The Blue Jackets to play AND BEAT The Hawks in the first round.

The Sharks to flake and play us. Niemi ain't holding us down and Elliott and Allen are the Dynamic Duo. Allen deserves the tandem. Don't screw with that synergy.

Feeling really good about how we're rolling. Loving Cracknell. And oh yeah, Stewart scored.

Gotta keep this up.


I would go 100% with Elliott. I don't think they really have any synergy going as a tandem tbh. Since Halak got hurt, Elliott has started 11 of the 13 games and gone 9-2, allowing more than 1 goal only twice, in 11 games. That's phenomenal. Allen has gone 1-1, allowing 5 goals in 2 games (which is OK, but nowhere near the level Elliott is playing right now). I'm pleased with how Allen has played this year, and there was a point that I thought he was going to run away with the job (which was a big knee jerk on my part tbh). But, you don't give somebody playing time in the playoffs because they "deserve" it. You play whoever is playing better. There is no second criterion.


Brian Elliott only works well when he has someone else who can play as well as him. When it's just him, the pressure tears him apart, we have seen this.

Jaro Halak is NOT EVER going to push him enough. He can't stay healthy and his heart is NOT in St. Louis.

You say you don't give it to someone who deserves it but who is better. Jake Allen is BETTER than Jaro Halak. Period. Unlike Elliott and Halak, it was Jake Allen that came in, settled down the goaltending situation and brought back the mental toughness and faith and made quite a few intangibles possible. Elliott has someone to compete with and when Elliott has someone who walked in and stood tall, Elliott's natural instinct is to be better than them. And he has been.

Jaro Halak can NOT stay healthy long enough to make a difference for us. This is not a few years back and we're not the Habs, let's get off this train right now. Halak is many things, but he is only consistant at getting hurt.

I like how you brought you the 1-1 stand for Jake and not the rest of his stats for the season. That's really one-sided and unfair for a guy who IS our future. Halak is not. What Halak IS, is a guy eating money that deserves to be spent on Pie and Shatt.

Right now, Halak should ride pine until we need him. Let Elliott and Allen rule the pipes, they not only deserve it but they're leagues better than Jaro Halak. I'm sick of Halak and sick of people speaking highly of this fool when the guys who stood between the pipes when we needed it the most was BRIAN ELLIOTT AND JAKE ALLEN.

THEY are better. End of story.


Health is the only issue with Halak.
When healthy, he's one of the best in the NHL, he has proven that...but that doesn't matter if he can't play because he is hurt.
Personally, I think the idea that Elliott only plays well when being pushed by another goaltender is a manufactured scenario based on coincidence and hapenstance.
This team isn't going to go into the playoffs with Allen in net, everyone knows that. There is no danger of Allen taking Elliott's job at this point unless Elliott completely tanks, so I fail to see how Elliott's improved play is because Allen is backing him up. The Blues want to win a cup this year, and Armstrong isn't going to make a deal for Leopold and Bouwmeester and be content with Allen in net should Elliott falter...which is why Halak was rumored to be all but dealt to Buffalo for Ryan Miller, but then Halak got hurt and the deal was nixed.
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby Oaklandblue » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:36 pm

cprice12 wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:Things I am hoping for:

The Blue Jackets to play AND BEAT The Hawks in the first round.

The Sharks to flake and play us. Niemi ain't holding us down and Elliott and Allen are the Dynamic Duo. Allen deserves the tandem. Don't screw with that synergy.

Feeling really good about how we're rolling. Loving Cracknell. And oh yeah, Stewart scored.

Gotta keep this up.


I would go 100% with Elliott. I don't think they really have any synergy going as a tandem tbh. Since Halak got hurt, Elliott has started 11 of the 13 games and gone 9-2, allowing more than 1 goal only twice, in 11 games. That's phenomenal. Allen has gone 1-1, allowing 5 goals in 2 games (which is OK, but nowhere near the level Elliott is playing right now). I'm pleased with how Allen has played this year, and there was a point that I thought he was going to run away with the job (which was a big knee jerk on my part tbh). But, you don't give somebody playing time in the playoffs because they "deserve" it. You play whoever is playing better. There is no second criterion.


Brian Elliott only works well when he has someone else who can play as well as him. When it's just him, the pressure tears him apart, we have seen this.

Jaro Halak is NOT EVER going to push him enough. He can't stay healthy and his heart is NOT in St. Louis.

You say you don't give it to someone who deserves it but who is better. Jake Allen is BETTER than Jaro Halak. Period. Unlike Elliott and Halak, it was Jake Allen that came in, settled down the goaltending situation and brought back the mental toughness and faith and made quite a few intangibles possible. Elliott has someone to compete with and when Elliott has someone who walked in and stood tall, Elliott's natural instinct is to be better than them. And he has been.

Jaro Halak can NOT stay healthy long enough to make a difference for us. This is not a few years back and we're not the Habs, let's get off this train right now. Halak is many things, but he is only consistant at getting hurt.

I like how you brought you the 1-1 stand for Jake and not the rest of his stats for the season. That's really one-sided and unfair for a guy who IS our future. Halak is not. What Halak IS, is a guy eating money that deserves to be spent on Pie and Shatt.

Right now, Halak should ride pine until we need him. Let Elliott and Allen rule the pipes, they not only deserve it but they're leagues better than Jaro Halak. I'm sick of Halak and sick of people speaking highly of this fool when the guys who stood between the pipes when we needed it the most was BRIAN ELLIOTT AND JAKE ALLEN.

THEY are better. End of story.


Health is the only issue with Halak.
When healthy, he's one of the best in the NHL, he has proven that...but that doesn't matter if he can't play because he is hurt.
Personally, I think the idea that Elliott only plays well when being pushed by another goaltender is a manufactured scenario based on coincidence and hapenstance.This team isn't going to go into the playoffs with Allen in net, everyone knows that. There is no danger of Allen taking Elliott's job at this point unless Elliott completely tanks, so I fail to see how Elliott's improved play is because Allen is backing him up. The Blues want to win a cup this year, and Armstrong isn't going to make a deal for Leopold and Bouwmeester and be content with Allen in net should Elliott falter...which is why Halak was rumored to be all but dealt to Buffalo for Ryan Miller, but then Halak got hurt and the deal was nixed.


So you're going to sit there and tell me with a straight face that his assignment to Peoria where he allowed HOW MANY goals somehow MAGICALLY turned him around?

News flash, THAT wasn't what turned him around, what did was him losing his 1A slot to Jake Allen.

The pattern is there, just look:

When we got Elliott, Halak was having issues and Elliott stood tall. When Elliott has an able-bodied NOT INJURED netminder with him, he can do wonders. The minute you give him the reins, he falls apart. The bottom line, from what I've seen is that Elliott lacks the mental toughness to be a true Starter. That's his real problem. He works well when we are not betting solely on him and when he has a standard to live up to.

When Halak got hurt, Elliott worked well because he knew that, at that time, that Halak would be back. When we found out he wasn't coming back when we faced the Kings, Elliott fell apart. Now, we can explain that as us coming against a team of destiny or against a far superior team or going against the Kings with a force that somehow lost confidence and fell apart. Doesn't matter, the bottom line is Elliott fell apart. That's what matters.

Zoom in to the start of this season. Halak has NOT BEEN 100% and has been a teetering injury case; he's played like one and the team responded like he was one and we were losing games. Again, we relied on Elliott solely and Ells fell apart and did horribly. Enter Jake Allen. Jake walked in with contagious confidence of a hungry rookie and, along with his talent, and he IS very talented, we started winning. We have NO IDEA how Elliott would have reacted to Jake because we benched him for a lot of games and ran on the Halak/Allen tandem.

Front Office sent Ells down to Peoria where he did HORRIBLY and Halak somehow magically got injured again. Elliott played again and he's pulling his Glenn Hall impersonation again with Jake Allen in tow.

I don't get how this is a COINCIDENCE, HAPPENSTANCE or ANYTHING ELSE of the contrary. Look at his time with the Sens, it does make sense and that's just how he operates. YOU said yourself that Ells is extremely fundamentally sound in his play, and it shows. Netminders are an odd breed that operate with superstitions, 'traditions' and other odd and strange things they do or hobbies they keep in the clubhouse. I don't think Brian Elliott is any different but it seems to pay major dividens to us when he's in an environment he succeeds in, and what I've been describing seems to be that environment.

And with this winning nonsense, If WE wanted to win so bad, WE would have signed a scorer, end of story. We didn't. We sold the Rivermen and signed Jay Bo and Leopold which, while both studly, what we really, really, really need is a playmaker, a sniper or someone that can put goals on the board, NOT MORE D.

You should not dismiss Jake Allen, he is VERY hungry and he wants to be here. He has talent and he just needs experience and how do you get that if you don't let him play? We're NOT going to win with Halak and we MAY win with Elliott, but the one thing that has made us bulletproof has been our tandems. When that fell apart, the team fell apart. The last thing we need is to reactivate Halak and have him fall apart again. That's getting old. I've HEARD what Halak can do, but not seen any of it with him wearing Blue. I've heard how BAD Brian Elliott was supposed to be and seen how excellent and almost flawless he can be, when his head's in the right place. I've HEARD that Jake Allen is supposed to be our goaltender of the future and seeing his play, I truly believe every word of it and more.

Halak at best is a wild card and a secret weapon if he can even stay healthy enough to win AND live up to his Montreal Legacy. People here are hoping on something that happened to Jaro Halak for a handful of games TWO years ago IN the EAST and UNDER difference circumstances. Brian, when his head is on right, is the most dangerous netminder we've had in the pipes since Glenn Hall. We just have to keep his head on right and play right.
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby theohall » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:57 pm

So Elliott pitching a shutout in his 2nd start in Peoria is doing awful in Peoria???? Explain.

First game, 3 GA after barely playing for 2 months.
2nd game - shutout

1.51 GAA, .946 Save percentage. Giving up 3 goals and he still had a .946 save percentage???? How is that awful???
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby cprice12 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:14 am

Oaklandblue wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
Oaklandblue wrote:Things I am hoping for:

The Blue Jackets to play AND BEAT The Hawks in the first round.

The Sharks to flake and play us. Niemi ain't holding us down and Elliott and Allen are the Dynamic Duo. Allen deserves the tandem. Don't screw with that synergy.

Feeling really good about how we're rolling. Loving Cracknell. And oh yeah, Stewart scored.

Gotta keep this up.


I would go 100% with Elliott. I don't think they really have any synergy going as a tandem tbh. Since Halak got hurt, Elliott has started 11 of the 13 games and gone 9-2, allowing more than 1 goal only twice, in 11 games. That's phenomenal. Allen has gone 1-1, allowing 5 goals in 2 games (which is OK, but nowhere near the level Elliott is playing right now). I'm pleased with how Allen has played this year, and there was a point that I thought he was going to run away with the job (which was a big knee jerk on my part tbh). But, you don't give somebody playing time in the playoffs because they "deserve" it. You play whoever is playing better. There is no second criterion.


Brian Elliott only works well when he has someone else who can play as well as him. When it's just him, the pressure tears him apart, we have seen this.

Jaro Halak is NOT EVER going to push him enough. He can't stay healthy and his heart is NOT in St. Louis.

You say you don't give it to someone who deserves it but who is better. Jake Allen is BETTER than Jaro Halak. Period. Unlike Elliott and Halak, it was Jake Allen that came in, settled down the goaltending situation and brought back the mental toughness and faith and made quite a few intangibles possible. Elliott has someone to compete with and when Elliott has someone who walked in and stood tall, Elliott's natural instinct is to be better than them. And he has been.

Jaro Halak can NOT stay healthy long enough to make a difference for us. This is not a few years back and we're not the Habs, let's get off this train right now. Halak is many things, but he is only consistant at getting hurt.

I like how you brought you the 1-1 stand for Jake and not the rest of his stats for the season. That's really one-sided and unfair for a guy who IS our future. Halak is not. What Halak IS, is a guy eating money that deserves to be spent on Pie and Shatt.

Right now, Halak should ride pine until we need him. Let Elliott and Allen rule the pipes, they not only deserve it but they're leagues better than Jaro Halak. I'm sick of Halak and sick of people speaking highly of this fool when the guys who stood between the pipes when we needed it the most was BRIAN ELLIOTT AND JAKE ALLEN.

THEY are better. End of story.


Health is the only issue with Halak.
When healthy, he's one of the best in the NHL, he has proven that...but that doesn't matter if he can't play because he is hurt.
Personally, I think the idea that Elliott only plays well when being pushed by another goaltender is a manufactured scenario based on coincidence and hapenstance.This team isn't going to go into the playoffs with Allen in net, everyone knows that. There is no danger of Allen taking Elliott's job at this point unless Elliott completely tanks, so I fail to see how Elliott's improved play is because Allen is backing him up. The Blues want to win a cup this year, and Armstrong isn't going to make a deal for Leopold and Bouwmeester and be content with Allen in net should Elliott falter...which is why Halak was rumored to be all but dealt to Buffalo for Ryan Miller, but then Halak got hurt and the deal was nixed.


So you're going to sit there and tell me with a straight face that his assignment to Peoria where he allowed HOW MANY goals somehow MAGICALLY turned him around?

What I am telling you is that Elliott was struggling mightily over his first 10 games of the season and in his first game in Peoria (he was stellar in his 2nd game i Peoria though)...and he turned it around. Players go through slumps, it happens...and it happened to Elliott. He was horrible...but then again, the team in front of him was playing poorly as well...so that didn't help his numbers either.

News flash, THAT wasn't what turned him around, what did was him losing his 1A slot to Jake Allen.

There is no "news flash". I'm sure that was some extra motivation for him, as it would be for anyone, but it's certainly not a label that should be put on him.

The pattern is there, just look:

When we got Elliott, Halak was having issues and Elliott stood tall. When Elliott has an able-bodied NOT INJURED netminder with him, he can do wonders. The minute you give him the reins, he falls apart.

Elliott had the reigns with Allen backing him up, and there was no danger of Allen being in net as the #1 down the stretch...and Elliott didn't fall apart...he actually played better than he ever has.
And Allen was good and got us some wins, but honestly, his numbers were not great...but the team was scoring and we were winning games so his .900 save % was deemed better than it was. And Allen did get better the more he played. But management knew he was not going to be the guy to get us into the playoffs.

The bottom line, from what I've seen is that Elliott lacks the mental toughness to be a true Starter. That's his real problem. He works well when we are not betting solely on him and when he has a standard to live up to.

Again, they are relying solely on him right now...they have been for weeks.

When Halak got hurt, Elliott worked well because he knew that, at that time, that Halak would be back. When we found out he wasn't coming back when we faced the Kings, Elliott fell apart. Now, we can explain that as us coming against a team of destiny or against a far superior team or going against the Kings with a force that somehow lost confidence and fell apart. Doesn't matter, the bottom line is Elliott fell apart. That's what matters.

No. That is incorrect.
Elliott was playing with an injury in the LA series. That came out in training camp this year and was a big reason why he struggled. It had absolutely nothing to do with Halak not coming back or Elliott "falling apart". They knew Halak wouldn't be coming back in the San Jose series, and Elliott was stellar in the playoffs until he got hurt.

In my opinion, trumping up the idea that Elliott only plays well when another goalie is pushing him is over analyzing the situation. He had a bad stretch. All athletes have them. Elliott's bad stretch happened to come during a shortened season where everything is magnified and time is of the essence, so there wasn't time to let him work it out with the team, so they sat him and eventually sent him to Peoria because they wanted to bring him back. Your other examples don't factor in injuries he had at the time or situations where Elliott was in no danger of losing the starting gig anyway.

And like I said before, I'm sure having a backup that is playing well and trying to take your job is extra motivation to play well, but I'm going to say that Elliott's new contract (last year) of near $2 million/per is quite a bit of motivation, along with the idea that he probably wants to keep playing in the NHL for a while, and keep making even more money, along with his desire to compete and win. Elliott also made it known that he likes it here, he wants to stay here, which is why he signed that contract last year...he wanted a little stability after being on three different teams in two years. You don't think his desire to stay in the NHL, to stick with one team for a while, to win hockey games, to be a part of a winning team, to win a cup, to earn more money to give his family the best life he can are the major factors in him playing well?? What about pride? Or are you going to keep saying the only reason he plays well, is because he has someone who could take his job? That's crap if you ask me. There is so much more to it than that. Taking that stance just says that you feel Elliott is lazy and only wants to work when pushed. And, you know what, there is a chance that is true. I don't personally know Elliott, so anything is possible I guess...but I seriously doubt that is the case. I'm not going to slam a guy just because. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt unless there is hard evidence to say otherwise.
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby APOD » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:27 pm

I think everyone is also forgetting that there was no training camp this season( I mean there was but come on really), most players didnt think there was going to be a season so there was no effort to forcefully stay in shape. To practice at the arena players(or teams) had to fork out there own money to rent out the building for a few hours. I think this comming offseason we will see our goalies get patched up and in better shape.

I'm not too worried about elliot I think he wil do fine.
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby cprice12 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:26 pm

APOD wrote:I think everyone is also forgetting that there was no training camp this season( I mean there was but come on really), most players didnt think there was going to be a season so there was no effort to forcefully stay in shape. To practice at the arena players(or teams) had to fork out there own money to rent out the building for a few hours. I think this comming offseason we will see our goalies get patched up and in better shape.

I'm not too worried about elliot I think he wil do fine.


Like many other players, Elliott also didn't play anywhere in a league during the offseason.
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby glen a richter » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:32 pm

It's a coincidence. When Halak is good, Elliott is good. When Allen is good, Elliott is good. When either is out for one reason or another, Elliott sucks. He needs a push from someone else to not suck. The fact that he got a shutout in his second game in Peoria is pure coincidence. Plus you have an NHL netminder playing in an AHL game, obviously he'll be a bit ahead of everyone else. It's a purely psychological thing. Elliott didn't need a trip to Peoria to show improvement, he needed Allen to come in and start winning games. Absent Allen or Halak, the only thing Elliott needs is a shrink to get into his head and fix whatever it is that blocks him from being productive in the absence of on-roster competition.
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby sseagle » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:32 pm

APOD wrote:I think everyone is also forgetting that there was no training camp this season( I mean there was but come on really), most players didnt think there was going to be a season so there was no effort to forcefully stay in shape. To practice at the arena players(or teams) had to fork out there own money to rent out the building for a few hours. I think this comming offseason we will see our goalies get patched up and in better shape.

I'm not too worried about elliot I think he wil do fine.


I got lit up for suggesting this...

(Frank) YOUR COUCH, NO ONE HAD TRAINING CAMP!!!! </whinybitchmode>
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby APOD » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:54 pm

sseagle wrote:
APOD wrote:I think everyone is also forgetting that there was no training camp this season( I mean there was but come on really), most players didnt think there was going to be a season so there was no effort to forcefully stay in shape. To practice at the arena players(or teams) had to fork out there own money to rent out the building for a few hours. I think this comming offseason we will see our goalies get patched up and in better shape.

I'm not too worried about elliot I think he wil do fine.


I got lit up for suggesting this...

(Frank) YOUR COUCH, NO ONE HAD TRAINING CAMP!!!! </whinybitchmode>


HA!
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Re: GDT #46: 4/23/13 > Blues vs Avs > 7:00 PM > FSMW+/Y98FM

Postby Oaklandblue » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:47 am

glen a richter wrote:It's a coincidence. When Halak is good, Elliott is good. When Allen is good, Elliott is good. When either is out for one reason or another, Elliott sucks. He needs a push from someone else to not suck. The fact that he got a shutout in his second game in Peoria is pure coincidence. Plus you have an NHL netminder playing in an AHL game, obviously he'll be a bit ahead of everyone else. It's a purely psychological thing. Elliott didn't need a trip to Peoria to show improvement, he needed Allen to come in and start winning games. Absent Allen or Halak, the only thing Elliott needs is a shrink to get into his head and fix whatever it is that blocks him from being productive in the absence of on-roster competition.
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