Petro Negotiations

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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby cprice12 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:42 am

I can't see the Blues signing anyone to an 8 year contract. I'd be shocked if that happened.

I'd be shocked if they signed anyone to anything over 5 years.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby Oaklandblue » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:20 am

There isn't a single player on this squad that is worth more than 5m. I'm sorry, there's not. 3-5 year contract seems to be the right range for us. I believe the problem isn't us wanting to sign him insomuch as it's Pie holding out to see if another team throws out an offer sheet for him. And they won't. He's a guy with 3 years under his belt; first year was ok, second year was a Norris-candidate worthy year and the third he looked horrible. He'd be lucky to get an offer sheet for 3m from any other team and we're not stupid enough to give him more than 5m and make it a contract worth it to us, not him. He plays for a team, not Pie. And I'm sorry, Shatts is a better player.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby glen a richter » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:22 pm

Oaklandblue wrote:There isn't a single player on this squad that is worth more than 5m. I'm sorry, there's not. 3-5 year contract seems to be the right range for us. I believe the problem isn't us wanting to sign him insomuch as it's Pie holding out to see if another team throws out an offer sheet for him. And they won't. He's a guy with 3 years under his belt; first year was ok, second year was a Norris-candidate worthy year and the third he looked horrible. He'd be lucky to get an offer sheet for 3m from any other team and we're not stupid enough to give him more than 5m and make it a contract worth it to us, not him. He plays for a team, not Pie. And I'm sorry, Shatts is a better player.


Shatty was the steal of the trade. Knowing what the Avalanche know now, they probably would have held out for a hell of a lot more than just Johnson and McClement. And they wouldn't have thrown in Stewart or the draft pick (Rattie). It would have been Shattenkirk by himself for a sizable group.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:57 pm

Oaklandblue wrote:And I'm sorry, Shatts is a better player.


I'd say Shatts had the better season last year, but I can't say he's the better player. Two seasons ago, he could have been a Norris finalist. His ceiling is the highest of any on the team, including Shatts.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby APOD » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:29 pm

Tick Tock Tick Tock
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:16 pm

Puck Daddy calls it a 'contingency plan' in case Petro's out for awhile, but reports are that Ryan Whitney was invited to the Blues' training camp on a PTO. It could just be that Taylor Chorney is our most experienced 'veteran depth' D-man and the Blues want to see what Whitney has left in the tank. Either way, if true, it's not a bad pickup. Both Strickland and Bob McKenzie have reported the same about Whitney.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby goon attack » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:20 pm

He's a fookin' pansy. I'd trade him now while his value is high. He's utterly meaningless.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby Oaklandblue » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:02 am

Screw Pie. We don't need him. He needs us.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby glen a richter » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:55 am

Oaklandblue wrote:Screw Pie. We don't need him. He needs us.


Given the defensive depth in the organization, I'd actually agree with that statement. But I'd rather have a proven Pie than an unproven Hakpanaa at the moment.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:47 am

Yeah, sweet. Let's just dump off one of the best young defenseman in the league.

Friggin' sounds like we're talking about Eric Brewer up in here.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby APOD » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:18 am

dmiles2186 wrote:Yeah, sweet. Let's just dump off one of the best young defenseman in the league.

Friggin' sounds like we're talking about Eric Brewer up in here.


Right, I remember when all the montreal fans were saying the same thing when this issue came up with subban......tell me again who won a Norris?
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:48 am

Exactly. At this point, it's about patience. With the new salary setups in the NHL, there's not really a template for Petro. The Blues have their own template (the bridge contracts that other teams are starting to utilize), but Petro doesn't really fit in, and that's where the issue lies. I saw someone comment on a P-D article the other day that the Blues should give Petro a 4-5 year deal worth 4 mil a year and then see where Petro is at.

One problem: no chance in Hades that Petro accepts that deal. He's hitting his prime money making years. He's a consensus 'future Norris winner.' He's the backbone of our D and he's only, what, 23? I can't blame him and his agent for seeking a max length deal for 7 per. If they're going to commit to the Blues, they want the Blues to financially commit to them. If this is an 8 year deal, that takes Petro up to 31. That means he misses free agency in the prime years and doesn't hit until he will start to exit those years (ala Albert Pujols). That hasn't stopped NHL teams from flinging money at guys at that age, but still, from Petro's perspective, he wants to make it (financially) worth his while to sign the dotted line for the rest of his 20's.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby cprice12 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:26 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:Exactly. At this point, it's about patience. With the new salary setups in the NHL, there's not really a template for Petro. The Blues have their own template (the bridge contracts that other teams are starting to utilize), but Petro doesn't really fit in, and that's where the issue lies. I saw someone comment on a P-D article the other day that the Blues should give Petro a 4-5 year deal worth 4 mil a year and then see where Petro is at.

One problem: no chance in Hades that Petro accepts that deal. He's hitting his prime money making years. He's a consensus 'future Norris winner.' He's the backbone of our D and he's only, what, 23? I can't blame him and his agent for seeking a max length deal for 7 per. If they're going to commit to the Blues, they want the Blues to financially commit to them. If this is an 8 year deal, that takes Petro up to 31. That means he misses free agency in the prime years and doesn't hit until he will start to exit those years (ala Albert Pujols). That hasn't stopped NHL teams from flinging money at guys at that age, but still, from Petro's perspective, he wants to make it (financially) worth his while to sign the dotted line for the rest of his 20's.


If Petro won't sign for less than $7 million per...then he can go (Frank) himself. He hasn't earned that kind of contract yet.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:37 pm

cprice12 wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:Exactly. At this point, it's about patience. With the new salary setups in the NHL, there's not really a template for Petro. The Blues have their own template (the bridge contracts that other teams are starting to utilize), but Petro doesn't really fit in, and that's where the issue lies. I saw someone comment on a P-D article the other day that the Blues should give Petro a 4-5 year deal worth 4 mil a year and then see where Petro is at.

One problem: no chance in Hades that Petro accepts that deal. He's hitting his prime money making years. He's a consensus 'future Norris winner.' He's the backbone of our D and he's only, what, 23? I can't blame him and his agent for seeking a max length deal for 7 per. If they're going to commit to the Blues, they want the Blues to financially commit to them. If this is an 8 year deal, that takes Petro up to 31. That means he misses free agency in the prime years and doesn't hit until he will start to exit those years (ala Albert Pujols). That hasn't stopped NHL teams from flinging money at guys at that age, but still, from Petro's perspective, he wants to make it (financially) worth his while to sign the dotted line for the rest of his 20's.


If Petro won't sign for less than $7 million per...then he can go (Frank) himself. He hasn't earned that kind of contract yet.


It's not about what he's earned, it's what he (or his agent) thinks he will be worth over the length of the contract. I'm not saying I agree with it, but from what I've read, that's where they're coming from.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby Oaklandblue » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:44 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:
cprice12 wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:Exactly. At this point, it's about patience. With the new salary setups in the NHL, there's not really a template for Petro. The Blues have their own template (the bridge contracts that other teams are starting to utilize), but Petro doesn't really fit in, and that's where the issue lies. I saw someone comment on a P-D article the other day that the Blues should give Petro a 4-5 year deal worth 4 mil a year and then see where Petro is at.

One problem: no chance in Hades that Petro accepts that deal. He's hitting his prime money making years. He's a consensus 'future Norris winner.' He's the backbone of our D and he's only, what, 23? I can't blame him and his agent for seeking a max length deal for 7 per. If they're going to commit to the Blues, they want the Blues to financially commit to them. If this is an 8 year deal, that takes Petro up to 31. That means he misses free agency in the prime years and doesn't hit until he will start to exit those years (ala Albert Pujols). That hasn't stopped NHL teams from flinging money at guys at that age, but still, from Petro's perspective, he wants to make it (financially) worth his while to sign the dotted line for the rest of his 20's.


If Petro won't sign for less than $7 million per...then he can go (Frank) himself. He hasn't earned that kind of contract yet.


It's not about what he's earned, it's what he (or his agent) thinks he will be worth over the length of the contract.


Right now ain't worth 7m. He hasn't turned the corner, he hasn't won a Norris and if he continues from last year, he'll never win a Norris and may very well end up the next Eric Brewer.

If he's that damn good, why hasn't other teams put up an offer sheet for him? If he's as amazing as we make him out to be, Chicago or Detroit or hell, even the Rangers would throw one at him. It's simple: He's not. Subban has the Norris. Pie doesn't and hasn't played like he deserves one save a brief moment.

Army surely isn't paying 7 or 6 for Pie. We need Pie to prove it and we got the guns to stand our ground. Pie would have a hard time getting another team to buy into the nonsense that his agent is trying to get Army to buy into. We'd offer 5m, I'm pretty sure about that. Any other team, 3m. Sorry, that's the reality.

As Blues fans, we continue to do that one thing we've always done: Base people on past success. Yeah, he was a contender for the Norris how many years ago? How is he now? He's still blossoming seems to be everyone's take on it, so he gets still blossoming pay, not Elite pay.

If his Agent can't get that, then either Pie needs to fire his agent or find another team to play on. I'd rather take a chance on a rookie who wants to play in the note to play over someone who wants to play for the Note for a big contract. Pie could learn a lot from how Jay Bo handled things. He should pay attention.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby APOD » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:27 pm

I just want to wear my Petro jersey this year without looking like that guy who still rocks his Brewer jersey :lol:


Oaklandblue wrote:If he's that damn good, why hasn't other teams put up an offer sheet for him? If he's as amazing as we make him out to be, Chicago or Detroit or hell, even the Rangers would throw one at him. It's simple: He's not. Subban has the Norris. Pie doesn't and hasn't played like he deserves one save a brief moment.


I hate comparing but
2011
PK- 77 games played- 14G & 24A
Alex- 79 games played- 11G & 32A

2012
PK- 81 games played- 7G & 29A
Alex- 81 games played- 12G & 39A

2013
PK- 42 games played- 11G & 27A
Alex- 47 games played- 5G & 19A

So we are complaining about 2013 with him being under 15 points shy of being a Norris winner. Also PK got his contract before he was a Norris winner. Honestly I would like to see him get average of 5.5-6mil 5 years, then we can extend him and pay him more if we like what we see.

Oaklandblue wrote:Pie could learn a lot from how Jay Bo handled things. He should pay attention.

The past 4 years he played in Calgary determined his contract with us sorry but his numbers sucked up there, thats why he is only getting 5-5.5. I think Petro deserves around 6mil.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby kodos » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:06 pm

PK Subban is one of the weakest Norris trophy winners I can ever recall.

They really need to split the trophy up into two awards, best offensive Dman and best all around Dman.

In my opinion Petro is worth the cash. Salaries are going to skyrocket soon and the Blues will regret a bridge contract. Worst case scenario for Petro is he levels off and just becomes a really really good dman. Even if we pay him 6.5 to 7 million a year, he'll only be overpaid by a million or two. What the hell is a million or two here or there? It's a third line depth guy.

The safer play is locking him up for a long time. Even if it costs a little more than they want.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby glen a richter » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:35 pm

Everyones numbers suck in Calgary. It's not Bou's fault. What he provides is durability and the ability to log a shitload of minutes, taking the load off the rest of the defense. He's worth every penny unless he suffers some sort of freak injury and actually ends up missing time, which thus far has not been an issue for him. Now that he's locked up in the note, however......

Bottom line is this, though: Whether or not the salary cap goes up (it will go up) will ownership be willing to continuously spend to the cap? They don't keep drafting defensemen because they intend to keep a very young, very good core of blueliners together forever. One by one, Jackman will be out, Polak will be out, Leopold will be out, Petro will be out. In their stead will be Hakanpaa, Schmaltz, Edmundson, the dude they just drafted this year. They're building to have a defensive group that has interchangeable parts. Once one member becomes too expensive (Petro) or too old (Jackman) they'll just shuffle him out for someone else who's just about ready to take his place.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:42 pm

I have said all along petro and his agent are correct in their numbers. The Blues need to come way up on their offers if this is going to happen.

Other teams haven't made an offer sheet because they don't want to gut their organization with the compensation - if he gets his money it's 2 x 1st round, a 2nd, and a third or 4 first rounders depending on the exact number.

It doesn't really matter if you think he's "worth" that, the market says he is. I don't think a movie ticket is worth $12, but the local theater says it is so you don't come in if you don't want to pay. It's the same deal here.

He's an excellent player, he's not even in his prime, and you have to pay to keep guys like that.
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Re: Petro Negotiations

Postby APOD » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:24 pm

glen a richter wrote:Everyones numbers suck in Calgary. It's not Bou's fault. What he provides is durability and the ability to log a shitload of minutes, taking the load off the rest of the defense. He's worth every penny unless he suffers some sort of freak injury and actually ends up missing time, which thus far has not been an issue for him.


I agree I was just stating that you can't compare his contract to petros if Bouw was playing anywhere else we would be paying him 7.5 Average hell he probally wouldn't even be playing here.
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