GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98FM

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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby cprice12 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:28 am

I didn't think LaPierre's hit was dirty.
Was it a hit from behind? Yes.
Should it have been a penalty? Yes.
Was it dirty? I don't think so.
Does he have time to curl off and not hit Boyle? I suppose. But his job is to hit some bodies...not play the puss and curl off a hit on their best defenseman.

Boyle was playing the puck, LaPierre approached him and checked him from behind as Boyle is turning. It wasn't a vicious check, but Boyle had stumbled a bit just before the check which caused him to lean forward and down a bit. It's unfortunate that his chin was right at the dasher level when he was hit, which that is why he went down. The key here is the stumble happens RIGHT before the hit, so LaPierre has no way to assess the situation that quickly.

LaPierre can be a dirty player, but this particular hit isn't dirty. It's an unfortunate result of a hockey play. Sometimes guys get hurt in hockey. It happens. And it's not always a penalty, and not every hit from behind along the boards is automatically dirty.

If LaPierre's hit is dirty, then the Burns hit on Morrow is too (I don't think it was). But since the standard had been established by kicking LaPierre out of the game for his hit on Boyle, then the same standard should have been applied to Burns...but it wasn't.



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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby cprice12 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:33 am

Will he be suspended?
Probably...because it happened to Dan Boyle and he went off on a stretcher. The NHL would look bad if they didn't suspend him.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby kodos » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:09 am

I thought the Boyle hit was a disgrace. The way he laid there on the ice to draw a penalty was shameless. He needs to learn how to play in this league and keep his head up and not turn into the boards like that. He really put himself in a bad spot and he paid the price for his mistake.

Also, if we really want to assign blame in this situation, isn't this whole thing the fault of his teammate who passed him the puck and put him in the corner like that? That's where the real danger comes from. Bad passes.

It wasn't even really Lappiere's fault anyway, because of their height difference.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby fargoblues » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:26 am

STLADOGG wrote:Lapierre is a (Frank) dumbass. I hated him when he was with Vancouver, hes a snake and should be suspended and released from this team.

I actually agree with this. He is an embarrassment to the Blues and how Blues hockey is played. I don't want the Blues to have the reputation that he brings with him.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby fargoblues » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:34 am

cprice12 wrote:I didn't think LaPierre's hit was dirty.
Was it a hit from behind? Yes.
Should it have been a penalty? Yes.
Was it dirty? I don't think so.
Does he have time to curl off and not hit Boyle? I suppose. But his job is to hit some bodies...not play the puss and curl off a hit on their best defenseman.

Boyle was playing the puck, LaPierre approached him and checked him from behind as Boyle is turning. It wasn't a vicious check, but Boyle had stumbled a bit just before the check which caused him to lean forward and down a bit. It's unfortunate that his chin was right at the dasher level when he was hit, which that is why he went down. The key here is the stumble happens RIGHT before the hit, so LaPierre has no way to assess the situation that quickly.

LaPierre can be a dirty player, but this particular hit isn't dirty. It's an unfortunate result of a hockey play. Sometimes guys get hurt in hockey. It happens. And it's not always a penalty, and not every hit from behind along the boards is automatically dirty.

If LaPierre's hit is dirty, then the Burns hit on Morrow is too (I don't think it was). But since the standard had been established by kicking LaPierre out of the game for his hit on Boyle, then the same standard should have been applied to Burns...but it wasn't.




Don't disagree with this but the reality is LaPierre has a well deserved and hard earned douchebag reputation. I don't like it. I don't want it on my team, not just because I don't like it but because of the side effects, namely, other teams saying "well, this douchebag is just going to take liberties with our guys, we'll take one of theirs out".
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby sseagle » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:03 am

Yes suspension, >5 games - hes heading to NY for an in person hearing.

side note, can we play tonight?

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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:12 am

I see where Boyle stumbles right before the hit, but I think he was already in a vulnerable spot before that.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby goon attack » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:22 am

Utter horsecrap. That shouldn't have even been a penalty. Not only were they skating sideways along the sideboards, but had Boyle's chin not hit the dasher he would have bounced right back up like nothing ever happened. It really wasn't even much of a hit to begin with. Just a fluke thing.

That being said, I don't like Lapierre anyway. Screw him and put that pussy we got for Perron in there.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby abc789987 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:55 am

goon attack wrote:Utter horsecrap. That shouldn't have even been a penalty. Not only were they skating sideways along the sideboards, but had Boyle's chin not hit the dasher he would have bounced right back up like nothing ever happened. It really wasn't even much of a hit to begin with. Just a fluke thing.


This is how I saw it too. Screw giving suspensions to people based on the outcome of a hit...
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby BlueNoteworthy » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:45 pm

The hit by Lapierre was disgraceful, and I want him off the Blues now. The fact that Boyle was falling only made the hit worse, not because he was falling, but because of how Lapierre reacted to the fall. Lapierre did not continue on through the check as if he didn't realize that Boyle was falling. That may have been excusable. No, instead he followed the hit down into Boyle and drove him into the dasher. He saw numbers the whole time and drove him hard into the boards anyway. That is bad enough and a penalty. Then he compounded it by taking advantage of the player falling to drive him into the most dangerous part of the board with what, to me, looked like an intent to injure. That is unacceptable and should result in a suspension and a release. The NHL has a code of conduct with how player act that makes it a skill sport despite the inherent violence. Not hitting a player who is down or going down is part of that code. That is why most hockey fights end when a player falls, even if it is a slip. That is also why I am not happy with Backes for following Demers to the ground after he knocked him down (or more realistically Demers flopped). This is hockey, not the UFC where you can pull off the ground and pound.

That said, I feel the refs unfairly turned against the Blues after the hit. Don't get me wrong. That's not why the Blues lost. They got outplayed. Still it is hard to turn it around when you are getting bad calls. The Burns hit on Morrow should have been a major. Backes should not have gotten a roughing penalty for checking a guy coming to lay him out. I think I even saw a ref horse collar Steen when he was chasing a live puck (did anyone else see it because nobody has said anything and I watched it 3 times in replay so I hope I'm not going crazy).

Overall, this game has confirmed some of my worst fears watching the Blues early this season. I was not impressed with their early games despite the wins. They played some rusty goalies (Rinne first game coming off of surgery, Thomas coming off of a year leave, and Biron who was sent down to the AHL for horrible play). So their offense has been inflated and they have not looked good in their zone or going after pucks in the corners like they have been known for. Also, it looks like Scottrade needs new ice every time the Blues have the puck, but only when they have the puck. They need much better puck control. I'm glad they lost so decisively. Maybe this will cause Hitch to get them to buy-in to the defensive system yet again. Blues need more offense than they had last year, but not at the expense of the defense and puck control that has caused their resurgence.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby ViPeRx007 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:10 pm

Some of you people are out of your damn minds. Disgraceful hit by Lapierre? Whatever. It would have been had he actually intended to injure the guy, but he didn't. He was racing for the puck, Boyle stopped and stumbled, and Lapierre just made contact with him. He doesn't really drive him into the boards. He was practically falling into the boards himself right when they made contact. The speed he was coming in, he could have seriously demolished him, which at that point would have been disgraceful. I don't think he did that though. Just my humble opinion. It's an unfortunate deal either way but I see the Burns hit as practically the same. The only difference is the injury. How do you predict what will cause an injury anyway? Not all injuries are the result of illegal plays. Sometimes players get injured just because. Are you saying that every single player put in Boyle's position would have been injured on that play? ....I doubt it.

Unfortunately, it probably doesn't matter because Shanahan doesn't look that much into things. He looks at a history and a result of the infraction and makes his judgement.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby BlueNoteworthy » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:25 pm

His arms, not his body, went in a downward motion after contact was made as he pushed Boyle down into the dasher. He wasn't falling after him, he was pushing him down. Several Sharks are also saying he threatened to injure someone multiple times before that play. Now that could be just riling the other team up, although a bad way to do it. However, given the combination of the two facts, 1) him pushing downward with his arms directly into the dasher and 2) threatening injury prior to the play, I am left with no choice but to believe he intended to injure. That is unacceptable. I have no dog in this fight. I am a Blues, not a sharks fan. I did not dislike the Lapierre signing nor regret him breaking up the CPR line. I love having a player who gets in the other teams head. I remember Geoff Courtnall doing this for the blues with great fondness I just don't want a thug on my favorite team. Based on everything I have seen of him culminating in this hit, I believe he is a thug. It's definitely acceptable for you to have a different opinion as we have no way to know what he was really thinking.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:12 pm

People get hit exactly like the hit on Boyle in EVERY game between two physical teams. It's a hockey play. The call is based on the outcome, not on the play. Boyle tripped. They are skating parallel to the boards and ran out of room with the corner. If he got hit in the numbers it's because he turned away from contact, not because it was intended injure.

So are forechecking players supposed to have coffee while dumb defensemen get their skates and bodies turned in such a way that they can be hit? Ha ha, can't hit me - I'm in a vulnerable position that I just put myself in to! bullshit.

The hit on morrow is just as bad and likely more dangerous as he is literally launched and tripped into the boards from behind.

Eject and suspend both guys or neither.

For those of you who find Lap's hit "disgraceful" go watch a different sport. NHL hockey is a rough game and should stay that way.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby goon attack » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:57 pm

Several Sharks are also saying he threatened to injure someone multiple times before that play. Now that could be just riling the other team up,


That's exactly what it is. Have you ever heard the chatter that occurs between benches and players?

It wasn't much of a hit at all.

as we have no way to know what he was really thinking.


Isn't a big part of your analysis that Lapierre intended to injure Boyle? If we don't know what he was thinking, then how can you come to your conclusion?
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby philco_3 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:10 pm

The hit by Burns looked to more to injury, Lapierres hit looked more like Boyles fault for not skating correctly. Either way, the NHL should also look at Burns hit too. I don't care if Morrow came back and played...look at Perron, I'm tired of this team getting the screw job from the NHL against these Sharks.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby glen a richter » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:24 pm

One way or the other, we were clearly overmatched against the Sharks. If this is how it is against good opponents, we're in for a surprise this season. Beating Nashville, Florida and the Rangers is one thing, losing badly to San Jose who could very well be the best team in the whole damn league is another thing entirely. I mean they couldn't even hang with them. If the Blues are supposed to be a top team in the league they have to at least keep it close and entertaining against other top teams. The 4-0 start could just as quickly turn into a 4-3 start by the end of the week if they're not careful.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby BlueNoteworthy » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:11 pm

People get hit exactly like the hit on Boyle in EVERY game between two physical teams. It's a hockey play.


Actually, its an illegal hockey play, called boarding or checking from behind. Take your pick.

From NHL rulebook: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26329
A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the boards violently in the boards. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee.

There is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees. The onus is on the player applying the check to ensure his opponent is not in a defenseless position and if so, he must avoid or minimize the contact. However, in determining wheter such contact could have been avoided, the circumstances of the check, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the check or whether the check was unavoidable can be considered. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule.


While there are hits into the boards in every game, it is very rare someone hits a guy from behind pushing his head downward into the dasher. I defy you to show me one such hit this year outside of this game, much less one every game between two physical teams. The combination of hitting from behind in addition to driving him into the boards, the extreme defenselessness of Boyle as he was falling and his back was turned, and Lapierre not trying to avoid but instead worsening the hit by pushing downward combine to make this hit so bad. You could argue that Boyle, by turning his back and falling put himself in a vulnerable position, but it was not immediately before the check. His back was turned the whole time. So no, the forechecking players are not supposed to have coffee but they are supposed to avoid hitting the defenseless player, not push him down into the boards. That is the rules of the National HOCKEY League. So I am fine watching hockey, which is not what Lapierre was playing. Maybe you should watch the UFC instead if you want to watch people slam someone against the cage.

Isn't a big part of your analysis that Lapierre intended to injure Boyle? If we don't know what he was thinking, then how can you come to your conclusion?


We can never know 100% for sure what someone is thinking, so I do not begrudge someone a differing opinion than mine on what a player was likely thinking. I am merely explaining why I think he should be severely suspended and why I do not want him on the Blues. Someone can obviously look at the tape and see something else. I believe we can infer that it is highly likely he was trying to injure Boyle and therefore he should be punished accordingly. Even if the intent was not to injure, the recklessness of the play should be punished harshly. If someone disagrees, I respect their right to a different opinion. Basically, it was my way of saying to Viper, "with all due respect to your opinion, I am new here and don't want to insult you, but here is my differing opinion." Now I am going to log off and watch some Ultimate Fighter on the dvr cause I do enjoy the UFC in the right time and place.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby Oaklandblue » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:15 am

This game was a total anomaly. Let it go and move on.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby BlueNoteworthy » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:02 am

The NHL ruled on the Burns hit on Morrow. The said it was clean. That Morrow tried a reverse hit and lost the battle. Hmmm. What game were they watching? I guess he was trying to do a reverse hit with his back. Suspend him or not, but don't give a totally bogus reason for not suspending him.
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Re: GDT #5: 10/15/13 > Blues vs Sharks > 7:00 PM > NBCSN/Y98

Postby sseagle » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:17 am

The rules are (Frank). There should be no judgement calls if it is for "player safety" which we all know it isn't.

Here's my really (Frank) shocked face that San Jose yet again can do whatever the (Frank) they please and get zero repercussions.

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