Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
Moderator: LGB Mods
-
- Hall Of Fame
- Posts: 3382
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:27 pm
- Location: Anywhere but here
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
Even though Elliot has played better than Halak over the same time frame?
Halak's injury status was likely a factor in this move. The fact that he's been here this long and we don't know what he can do in the playoffs is a big deal.
Meh, it's done. We will have to come back next year and see what we think of the trade and maybe the year after that as well.
I see Elliot gone by the draft regardless.
Halak's injury status was likely a factor in this move. The fact that he's been here this long and we don't know what he can do in the playoffs is a big deal.
Meh, it's done. We will have to come back next year and see what we think of the trade and maybe the year after that as well.
I see Elliot gone by the draft regardless.
Official 2008-2015 LGB Sponsor of Barret Jackman
-
- 1st Line Sniper
- Posts: 740
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:25 pm
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... --nhl.html
just one more person with a similar negative take on the trade
key quote "Another reason this was a curious trade is that it failed to address the Blues' real issue, which is to say that they're probably not doing enough offensively to convince anyone who's paying real attention that they're true contenders in the Western Conference, let alone for the Stanley Cup"
"the Blues get Miller and Ott, who presumably adds “grit” (and has a potentially negative impact on possession due to his not being very good), "
just one more person with a similar negative take on the trade
key quote "Another reason this was a curious trade is that it failed to address the Blues' real issue, which is to say that they're probably not doing enough offensively to convince anyone who's paying real attention that they're true contenders in the Western Conference, let alone for the Stanley Cup"
"the Blues get Miller and Ott, who presumably adds “grit” (and has a potentially negative impact on possession due to his not being very good), "
2016-7 sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2017-8 sponsor of Tage Thompson
2018-9 sponsor of Ryan O'Reilly
2019-20 sponsor of old time hockey
2020-21 sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2021-22 sponsor of Pavel Buchnevich
2022-23 sponsor of Brayden Schenn
2023-24 sponsor of Justin Faulk
2017-8 sponsor of Tage Thompson
2018-9 sponsor of Ryan O'Reilly
2019-20 sponsor of old time hockey
2020-21 sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2021-22 sponsor of Pavel Buchnevich
2022-23 sponsor of Brayden Schenn
2023-24 sponsor of Justin Faulk
-
- Hall Of Fame
- Posts: 3382
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:27 pm
- Location: Anywhere but here
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
In reading his article it's pretty clear that he isn't following the Blues much.
The bullet points on this trade from someone who actually watches the Blues play and doesn't just look at metrics:
> Berglund is used wrong as a center
>Stewart is a drifter not playing to his potential
>Halak has injury history - his groin could explode at any moment, why do you think Buffalo has him as a backup until he can be traded again?
>Halak just came off a shitty performance in the Olympics (he was BAD)
>Halak has played so few playoff games in STL that he's an unknown
> Miller won a Vezina
>Miller is a gamer - See his olympic performance and his work ethic on a shitty, shitty Buffalo team (for years!)
>Ott is being used wrong in Buffalo (stats linky - and the whole argument against the trade is based off those stats. We aren't asking him to play career high minutes as a shutdown center - we already have that covered, but that's exactly what he's been doing in Buffalo. He's not that good, we know it and don't have that expectation.
>Ott is a gamer - he's universally respected for his work ethic, nasty edge, and heart
>Clearing Stew and his salary increases flexibility (more trades coming?) and opens a second line spot on the wing for any number of more consistent, defensively committed players
The only award I could find for Ryan Lambert's "journalism" was dickhead of the year and I feel like he misrepresented this source in his article.
I think he makes some decent points - I would like a top six scoring forward as well. I would have much rather plucked moulson out of Buffalo over Ott.
FWIW, St. Louis had better corsi/fenwick numbers 5v5 and 5v4 than Pitt or Chi last year, and look where that landed.
The bullet points on this trade from someone who actually watches the Blues play and doesn't just look at metrics:
> Berglund is used wrong as a center
>Stewart is a drifter not playing to his potential
>Halak has injury history - his groin could explode at any moment, why do you think Buffalo has him as a backup until he can be traded again?
>Halak just came off a shitty performance in the Olympics (he was BAD)
>Halak has played so few playoff games in STL that he's an unknown
> Miller won a Vezina
>Miller is a gamer - See his olympic performance and his work ethic on a shitty, shitty Buffalo team (for years!)
>Ott is being used wrong in Buffalo (stats linky - and the whole argument against the trade is based off those stats. We aren't asking him to play career high minutes as a shutdown center - we already have that covered, but that's exactly what he's been doing in Buffalo. He's not that good, we know it and don't have that expectation.
>Ott is a gamer - he's universally respected for his work ethic, nasty edge, and heart
>Clearing Stew and his salary increases flexibility (more trades coming?) and opens a second line spot on the wing for any number of more consistent, defensively committed players
The only award I could find for Ryan Lambert's "journalism" was dickhead of the year and I feel like he misrepresented this source in his article.
I think he makes some decent points - I would like a top six scoring forward as well. I would have much rather plucked moulson out of Buffalo over Ott.
FWIW, St. Louis had better corsi/fenwick numbers 5v5 and 5v4 than Pitt or Chi last year, and look where that landed.
Official 2008-2015 LGB Sponsor of Barret Jackman
- dmiles2186
- Hockey God
- Posts: 7288
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
My counter to this...flyingnote38 wrote:key quote "Another reason this was a curious trade is that it failed to address the Blues' real issue, which is to say that they're probably not doing enough offensively to convince anyone who's paying real attention that they're true contenders in the Western Conference, let alone for the Stanley Cup"
Presently the Blues rank 3rd in Goals Per Game at 3.22 behind Chicago (3.36) and Anaheim (3.23) and in front of the likes of Pittsburgh (3.13), Boston (3.12), Colorado (3.03), and San Jose (2.89).
In 5 on 5 Goals For/Against ratio, the Blues rank 4th at 1.37 behind Boston (1.45), Anaheim (1.44), and Chicago (1.40).
Powerplay, the Blues rank 4th at 21.3%, behind Pittsburgh (25.0%), Washington (22.1%), and Chicago (21.4%).
And in the plain ol' Goals For category, the Blues rank 3rd with 193 behind Chicago (208) and Anaheim (200).
How is this not 'doing enough offensively?' The Blues are literally doing almost the best in the league offensively in every category. Mind you, in overall goals for, the Blues have 2 games in hand on both Chicago and Anaheim. No, they probably won't score 15 goals in 2 games to match Chicago, but could they score 7 in 2 games? Sure.
Point is, so many people think the Blues 'need' offense because we don't have an Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane, Toews, Thornton, etc. What they don't think about is that we've got scoring up and down the roster, as evidenced by the Blues being near the top in how many double digit goal scorers they have.
Where in these stats does it say the Blues need to do more offensively? (More of a question to Ryan Lambert than anyone, but still...)
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Not Ott, because he is a booger-eating dumb dumb
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
Since averages may be misleading as scoring goes in ebbs and flows, here are a few more metrics that show how similar the Blues are to Ducks, Hawks, Kings and Sharks. In fact (and I totally didn't expect this), it shows that Blues are on average, more prolific than the other four teams. While goaltending problems is not a direct conclusion, what we can say is that Blues' offense is not an issue this year and they lose to the Ducks, the Kings and the Sharks because of other factors. Blues' offense may struggle against the Ducks, Kings and Sharks but I would argue that it is mostly due to an extremely physical forecheck of these teams that we cannot match or find a way around.
% Shutouts represent % games in which teams listed scored 0 goals (so shutout defeats or 0-0 draws). I used the results from the schedule and decreased goals scored by 1 in an event of a shootout win. The remaining rows are similar in that they represent % games with certain number of goals scored.
I decreased goals scored by 1 for shootout wins, so this represents total goals scored.
Feel free to poke holes in this analysis. There are bound to be some... Blues just can't be that good offensively.
% Shutouts represent % games in which teams listed scored 0 goals (so shutout defeats or 0-0 draws). I used the results from the schedule and decreased goals scored by 1 in an event of a shootout win. The remaining rows are similar in that they represent % games with certain number of goals scored.
I decreased goals scored by 1 for shootout wins, so this represents total goals scored.
Feel free to poke holes in this analysis. There are bound to be some... Blues just can't be that good offensively.
2018 - 2019 Official sponsor of Vladimir Tarasenko
2017 - 2018 Official sponsor of Joel "Top Shelf" Edmundson
2016 - 2017 Official sponsor of Nail "THE YAK" Yakupov
2017 - 2018 Official sponsor of Joel "Top Shelf" Edmundson
2016 - 2017 Official sponsor of Nail "THE YAK" Yakupov
- dmiles2186
- Hockey God
- Posts: 7288
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
[tweet][/tweet]
[tweet][/tweet]
[tweet][/tweet]
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Not Ott, because he is a booger-eating dumb dumb
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
This might have been posted some where in here before, but this would be crazy awesome to trade the first round pick.
As for trading Ryan Miller to St. Louis, Buffalo gets the Blues' 2014 first-round pick if Miller re-signs before the June draft or if they win two playoff rounds. Satirist extraordinaire Down Goes Brown wondered if the Blues can still trade that pick, assuming neither condition is met. Research indicates the answer is yes. Sort of. Let's assume -- and I'm totally making up this scenario -- St. Louis trades that 2014 first-rounder for Thomas Vanek of the New York Islanders. Before that move would be approved, there must be a written guarantee of what the Islanders would get should Buffalo's conditions occur.
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor or Brian Elliott
2014-2015 LGB Sponsor of Jori Lehtera
2013-2014 LGB Sponsor of Chris Stewart / Steve Ott and the trade that made it happen!
2012-errr.......Just 2013 LGB Sponsor of Andy McDonald
2014-2015 LGB Sponsor of Jori Lehtera
2013-2014 LGB Sponsor of Chris Stewart / Steve Ott and the trade that made it happen!
2012-errr.......Just 2013 LGB Sponsor of Andy McDonald
- Oaklandblue
- All-Star
- Posts: 1423
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:20 pm
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
This trade was so good, it got Bergy to start scoring goals.
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
2017-2018 LGB Sponsor of Alexander Steen
2017-2018 LGB Sponsor of Jaromir Jagr, Calgary Flames
2016-2017 LGB Sponsor of Brian Elliott, Calgary Flames
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Ryan "Turn that leaf on the wind into a shrimp on the bar-bee" Reaves
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Obviously Not Steve Ott
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Steve "Chirps-A-Lot" Ott
2015 LGB Supporter of the New York Rangers
2014-2015 LGB Sponsor of Patrik "No-Timer" Berglund
2013-2014 LGB Sponsor of Derek "In The Middle" Roy
2012-2013 LGB Sponsor of Chris "NO SLEEP TIL THE CUP!" Stewart - Shhhhh!!!
2017-2018 LGB Sponsor of Jaromir Jagr, Calgary Flames
2016-2017 LGB Sponsor of Brian Elliott, Calgary Flames
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Ryan "Turn that leaf on the wind into a shrimp on the bar-bee" Reaves
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Obviously Not Steve Ott
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Steve "Chirps-A-Lot" Ott
2015 LGB Supporter of the New York Rangers
2014-2015 LGB Sponsor of Patrik "No-Timer" Berglund
2013-2014 LGB Sponsor of Derek "In The Middle" Roy
2012-2013 LGB Sponsor of Chris "NO SLEEP TIL THE CUP!" Stewart - Shhhhh!!!
-
- 1st Line Sniper
- Posts: 740
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:25 pm
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
Stewie was holding him back.This trade was so good, it got Bergy to start scoring goals.
2016-7 sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2017-8 sponsor of Tage Thompson
2018-9 sponsor of Ryan O'Reilly
2019-20 sponsor of old time hockey
2020-21 sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2021-22 sponsor of Pavel Buchnevich
2022-23 sponsor of Brayden Schenn
2023-24 sponsor of Justin Faulk
2017-8 sponsor of Tage Thompson
2018-9 sponsor of Ryan O'Reilly
2019-20 sponsor of old time hockey
2020-21 sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2021-22 sponsor of Pavel Buchnevich
2022-23 sponsor of Brayden Schenn
2023-24 sponsor of Justin Faulk
- dmiles2186
- Hockey God
- Posts: 7288
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Selling Air Bombays--for kids who want to coach
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
[tweet][/tweet]
2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Not Ott, because he is a booger-eating dumb dumb
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
dmiles2186 wrote:[tweet][/tweet]
GreatER trade
Official Chatzy Sponsor Extraordinaire - Just wait till we score four...
Official Sponsor of FlashChat.. why am I alone still?
Official Sponsor of FlashChat.. why am I alone still?
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
He finished the game... so I guess he didnt get hurtsseagle wrote:dmiles2186 wrote:[tweet][/tweet]
GreatER trade
Official Chatzy Sponsor Extraordinaire - Just wait till we score four...
Official Sponsor of FlashChat.. why am I alone still?
Official Sponsor of FlashChat.. why am I alone still?
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
Hopefully he is ok, I sure as hell wouldn't wish he gets injured.
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
[youtube][/youtube]
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs;
it's Don't Tread On Me.
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs;
it's Don't Tread On Me.
-
- Hockey God
- Posts: 11422
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
- Location: Long Island, NY
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
rbochan wrote:[youtube][/youtube]
Sponsor of Joel "Future" HOFer 2023-2024
-
- Hall Of Fame
- Posts: 3382
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:27 pm
- Location: Anywhere but here
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
He actually did not return, and hasn't played since.sseagle wrote:He finished the game... so I guess he didnt get hurtsseagle wrote:dmiles2186 wrote:[tweet][/tweet]
GreatER trade
Word out of Buffalo is he most likely done for the season.
Official 2008-2015 LGB Sponsor of Barret Jackman
-
- Hockey God
- Posts: 11422
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:02 am
- Location: Long Island, NY
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
#80, eh? In baseball, the high numbers are reserved for guys who really aren't remotely ready for the big show. Apparently Buffalo is following the same concept with Stewart.
Sponsor of Joel "Future" HOFer 2023-2024
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
not_a_wings_fan wrote:He actually did not return, and hasn't played since.sseagle wrote:He finished the game... so I guess he didnt get hurtsseagle wrote:dmiles2186 wrote:[tweet][/tweet]
GreatER trade
Word out of Buffalo is he most likely done for the season.
played, didn't play... his stat line looks the same.
Official Chatzy Sponsor Extraordinaire - Just wait till we score four...
Official Sponsor of FlashChat.. why am I alone still?
Official Sponsor of FlashChat.. why am I alone still?
-
- Hall Of Fame
- Posts: 3382
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:27 pm
- Location: Anywhere but here
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
yep, he's been +/- -2 from th press box the last two games.sseagle wrote:not_a_wings_fan wrote:sseagle wrote:sseagle wrote:
played, didn't play... his stat line looks the same.
Official 2008-2015 LGB Sponsor of Barret Jackman
- WaukeeBlues
- Hockey God
- Posts: 6163
- Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:00 pm
- Location: Phi Alpha
Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF
That replay is disgusting. Ugh...
Official 2021-2022 LGB Sponsor of Torey Krug
Official 2021 LGB Sponsor of Brayden Schenn
Official 2018-2019 LGB Sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2018 LGB Playoff Challenge Champ
Official 2017-2018 LGB Sponsor of Vladimir Tarasenko
Official 2016-2017 LGB Sponsor of Scottie Upshall
Official 2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Kevin Shattenkirk
Official 2021 LGB Sponsor of Brayden Schenn
Official 2018-2019 LGB Sponsor of Jaden Schwartz
2018 LGB Playoff Challenge Champ
Official 2017-2018 LGB Sponsor of Vladimir Tarasenko
Official 2016-2017 LGB Sponsor of Scottie Upshall
Official 2015-2016 LGB Sponsor of Kevin Shattenkirk