Grade the Offseason

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What grade would you give the Blues offseason up to this point (draft included)?

A- LEGEN...wait for it...DARY
7
41%
B- Bonerific
8
47%
C- Not quite as awesome as that time we signed Martin Kariya and his brother
2
12%
D- Ranks down there w/ Bernie's GPA
0
No votes
F- Army is teh debil
0
No votes
What's worse than F?
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 17

Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby ecbm » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:12 am

glenn a richter wrote:the Perron offensive flashes (in spite of his turnover tendencies)


See, there's this. How many people am I seeing defend the Ott signing who maligned Perron? Ott gives the puck away at least as much-but don't hold your breath waiting for him to score 29 times on an awful team.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby ComradeT » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:45 am

ecbm wrote:
glenn a richter wrote:the Perron offensive flashes (in spite of his turnover tendencies)


See, there's this. How many people am I seeing defend the Ott signing who maligned Perron? Ott gives the puck away at least as much-but don't hold your breath waiting for him to score 29 times on an awful team.


There's a difference between a guy who's been with a team for 5 seasons and keeps turning the puck over because he's a puck hog and a guy who's been with the team 0 seasons and needs to adjust, etc. I am not excusing Ott's turnovers, I am saying your comparison is flawed in that a reasonable person could be ok with Ott given his short time with the Blues and not ok with Perron, who was supposed to grow into of the team's leaders and instead became a whimsical primadonna.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby glen a richter » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:39 am

The Preds just signed Roy for 1 yr/ 1 mil surely we could have gotten him to stay for the same instead of Ott.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:03 pm

ComradeT wrote:
ecbm wrote:
glenn a richter wrote:the Perron offensive flashes (in spite of his turnover tendencies)


See, there's this. How many people am I seeing defend the Ott signing who maligned Perron? Ott gives the puck away at least as much-but don't hold your breath waiting for him to score 29 times on an awful team.


There's a difference between a guy who's been with a team for 5 seasons and keeps turning the puck over because he's a puck hog and a guy who's been with the team 0 seasons and needs to adjust, etc. I am not excusing Ott's turnovers, I am saying your comparison is flawed in that a reasonable person could be ok with Ott given his short time with the Blues and not ok with Perron, who was supposed to grow into of the team's leaders and instead became a whimsical primadonna.
Except Ott's turnover issues and his terrible corsi predate his acquisition by trade... he sucked all year - just harder with us.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:39 pm

glen a richter wrote:The Preds just signed Roy for 1 yr/ 1 mil surely we could have gotten him to stay for the same instead of Ott.


As much as I hate the Ott signing, he's better suited for 3rd/4th line minutes than Roy. He had a decent start to last season, but once he fell out of favor with Hitch and was moved down the lineup, he disappeared. He was awful for the last half of the season.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby ecbm » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:42 am

As much as I hate the Ott signing, he's better suited for 3rd/4th line minutes than Roy.


OK, I'll bite. Why? Roy is younger, more productive, cheaper and didn't get a multi-year deal.

ComradeT wrote:There's a difference between a guy who's been with a team for 5 seasons and keeps turning the puck over because he's a puck hog and a guy who's been with the team 0 seasons and needs to adjust, etc. I am not excusing Ott's turnovers, I am saying your comparison is flawed in that a reasonable person could be ok with Ott given his short time with the Blues and not ok with Perron, who was supposed to grow into of the team's leaders and instead became a whimsical primadonna.


There 's also a difference between a guy who may well be a puck hog and turn the puck over a lot but also scores at a top-30-in-the-league clip and generates a lot of shots and another guy who turns the puck over just as much (more actually now) and not only rarely scores but also takes lots of bad penalties.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby ComradeT » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:33 am

ecbm wrote:
As much as I hate the Ott signing, he's better suited for 3rd/4th line minutes than Roy.


OK, I'll bite. Why? Roy is younger, more productive, cheaper and didn't get a multi-year deal.

ComradeT wrote:There's a difference between a guy who's been with a team for 5 seasons and keeps turning the puck over because he's a puck hog and a guy who's been with the team 0 seasons and needs to adjust, etc. I am not excusing Ott's turnovers, I am saying your comparison is flawed in that a reasonable person could be ok with Ott given his short time with the Blues and not ok with Perron, who was supposed to grow into of the team's leaders and instead became a whimsical primadonna.


There 's also a difference between a guy who may well be a puck hog and turn the puck over a lot but also scores at a top-30-in-the-league clip and generates a lot of shots and another guy who turns the puck over just as much (more actually now) and not only rarely scores but also takes lots of bad penalties.


Your top-30 claim for Perron is a bit rich as he only reached that sacred list once (and even then, almost, at 31st, in his first year as a run-and-gun Oiler). Scoring rankings of David Perron:

2008 - 09 season (81 GP): 15 goals (167th), 35 assists (77th), 50 points (108th), +16
2009 - 10 season (82 GP): 20 goals (103rd), 27 assists (139th), 47 points (120th), +13
ignoring 2010-11 as he only played 7 games due to injury
2011 - 12 season (52 GP, injury-shortened again): 21 goals, 21 assists, 42 points, -10. Projecting based on per-game stats, he could've been at 33/33/66/-16, which would rank him 17th in goals, 80th in assists and 33rd in points (with -16 +/- rating). And this would have been his best season because...
2012 - 13 season (48 GP, shortened due to lock-out): 10 goals (129th), 15 assists (144th), 25 points (139th), -16 (not a torrid pace for full season either).
2013 - 14 season (78 GP as an Oiler): 28 goals (31st - let's call this a top-30 place cause some guys tie), 29 assists (112th), 57 points (56th), -16.

So Perron reached the top-30 once. The only consistent thing about Perron is his +/- in the last two seasons. And while you would expect it from his season with the Oilers, the two season with negative +/- with the Blues while playing on their top line point to the huge liability that he was, despite the goals and assists (that weren't actually that good either).

Perron was maligned because he was playing on the top line and not producing nearly enough and not near his own potential, while being a defensive liability season after season. The expectations were high, and the disappointment was bitter. And he was given plenty of time and chances before fans started giving up on him. Ott is a different level signing. He fills the gap at 3rd-4th line center, so while Blues may have paid him too much (and looking at other, cheaper options, no thanks), but he can be effective in that place. And he deserves a little more time before we turn our backs on him (if that is to happen).
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby dmiles2186 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:51 pm

ecbm wrote:
As much as I hate the Ott signing, he's better suited for 3rd/4th line minutes than Roy.


OK, I'll bite. Why? Roy is younger, more productive, cheaper and didn't get a multi-year deal.


Roy is literally like 8 months younger than Ott. So that doesn't factor in at all.

Roy was put on the 3rd/4th line last year and he was terrible. He's much better suited to play more more skilled players in the top 6 than in the bottom 6. He's not physical...at all. Ott, for all his shortcomings, can at least throw his weight around.

We tried Roy here for a year, he didn't work out. He fell out of favor with Hitch. If you notice I said in that very post you quoted, I hate the Ott signing. He is more expensive, it's a 2 year deal. But his game is more suited for bottom 6 minutes than Roy's is, so productivity isn't a big issue for me. That's why.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby ecbm » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:58 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:Roy is literally like 8 months younger than Ott. So that doesn't factor in at all.


At the end of their contracts, Roy will be barely over 32. Ott will be 34. That does seem meaningful to me but OK.

dmiles2186 wrote:Roy was put on the 3rd/4th line last year and he was terrible. He's much better suited to play more more skilled players in the top 6 than in the bottom 6. He's not physical...at all. Ott, for all his shortcomings, can at least throw his weight around.


Aren't we going to have Oshie and, potentially, Lehtera on the 3rd line? Will they be there to throw their weight around? I couldn't help but notice how often Ott, while throwing his weight around, took himself out of plays or took penalties. I also don't see why that's particularly desirable to a club that dresses Reaves & Lapierre every night-both black holes in terms of actual hockey skills. How much point production should a presumptive contender sacrifice to be "chippy" and "difficult to play against"?

dmiles2186 wrote:We tried Roy here for a year, he didn't work out.


Absolutely correct; I won't argue with history. I don't want Roy back and didn't at any point. He's just one more example though of a guy who could be at least as productive as Ott with the same minutes, plus he took less and a one-year deal. The Ott contract is an unforced error, a self-inflicted wound. If productivity in the bottom six isn't important (I don't agree but no need to argue) why are we paying this guy $2.6M? Why not just give his minutes to Cracknell or Porter? I don't get it. Ott may be a Buffalo icon but I feel like he's stealing from the till in St. Louis.

Prove me wrong, Steve. I'm willing to leave it there at this point.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby dmiles2186 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:28 pm

ecbm wrote:Aren't we going to have Oshie and, potentially, Lehtera on the 3rd line? Will they be there to throw their weight around? .


Did you see what Oshie did to Rick Nash twice upon a time?

But seriously, there's still some cheap scoring punch out there: Lee Stempniak. And if I'm not mistaken, he's younger than both Roy and Ott. I have been saying I wanted him all offseason. No he's not what he was, but he's forward depth and I'm perfectly fine with that.

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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby glen a richter » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:38 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:
ecbm wrote:Aren't we going to have Oshie and, potentially, Lehtera on the 3rd line? Will they be there to throw their weight around? .


Did you see what Oshie did to Rick Nash twice upon a time?

But seriously, there's still some cheap scoring punch out there: Lee Stempniak. And if I'm not mistaken, he's younger than both Roy and Ott. I have been saying I wanted him all offseason. No he's not what he was, but he's forward depth and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Come home Lee-gion!


That would render my Stempniak sweater no longer irrelevant.
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby Portland Blues » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:50 am

glen a richter wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:
ecbm wrote:Aren't we going to have Oshie and, potentially, Lehtera on the 3rd line? Will they be there to throw their weight around? .


Did you see what Oshie did to Rick Nash twice upon a time?

But seriously, there's still some cheap scoring punch out there: Lee Stempniak. And if I'm not mistaken, he's younger than both Roy and Ott. I have been saying I wanted him all offseason. No he's not what he was, but he's forward depth and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Come home Lee-gion!


That would render my Stempniak sweater no longer irrelevant.


Unless they put an Arch on the new one. :wink:
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby ecbm » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:05 am

Would definitely have Stempniak back. Given Schwarz needs signing, however, you'd have to get-ahem-somebody off the books to get him in under the cap. He made $2.75M last year. That's the market!
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Re: Grade the Offseason

Postby JCShutout » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:38 am

It would be nice if we could move Leopold for a late round pick, let Butler or whomever be the 7th dman, and sign Stemper.

EDIT: Ah frak, the Rangers got em. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/ran ... -1.2712237

$900k. Great deal for the Rangers. Our lines are stacked, but he would have been great insurance against Lindstrom sucking.
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