Free Agent Moves and Major Trades

[WaukeeBlues]

Do you think Armstrong is going to try and sign Stamkos? A sign would be freeing up salary to accommodate him. So far rumor is he goes to Detroit but I always thought St Louis was in play for him as well.

No chance. Zero. Money freed up will be going directly to definitely Schwartz and maybe Backes. There won't be any big FA splashes on this team for quite a while.

If my choice was between spending the same amount of dollars and cap on either re-signing Schwartz and Backes or signing Stamkos, assuming he was willing too, I would go for latter, no question about it.

In theory it's possible but I believe it would be a reckless move.

If we assume the Blues move Shatty, that brings the Blues (according to nhlnumbers.com) to almost exactly $20 million in cap space. Lets also aggressively assume Schwartz has a cap hit of $7. So we got $13 to play with.

With Schwartz on board we'd have 8 forwards under contract for next season (not counting entry levels/minor leagues/etc) so we gotta figure Blues need to bring in about 5 or 6 guys and maybe another cheap defensive option to fill out the roster. Either within house or free agents. Let's be optimistic and say Blues sign 4 forwards and a D for $1 million each. Brings the Blues to $8 million in cap space.

That's a tall (and, IMO, reckless) order to spend up to the cap and also get Stamkos to agree to a contract that adjusts for a cap hit of $8 million a year. Or even $9 million a year if we're thrifty. We'd also be against the cap with Jake Allen about to be an RFA next year. As alluded to though we avoid the whole problem if we trade Schwartz or let him be offer-sheeted away from us and take the picks. I'd trade Stamkos for Schwartz in a heartbeat but we'd have to get Stamkos under contract first, obviously.

I don't know. It's possible but it would have to be a phenomenal job on Armstrong's part in putting together a contract structure and Stamkos agreeing to take less than the anticipated $10-12 million a year he could command from almost anyone. It would also mean some very cheap "filling out" options in our bottom 2 offensive lines.

I think it's far more likely Stamkos heads to one of Buffalo, Detroit or Toronto.

[ComradeT]

Do you think Armstrong is going to try and sign Stamkos? A sign would be freeing up salary to accommodate him. So far rumor is he goes to Detroit but I always thought St Louis was in play for him as well.

No chance. Zero. Money freed up will be going directly to definitely Schwartz and maybe Backes. There won't be any big FA splashes on this team for quite a while.

If my choice was between spending the same amount of dollars and cap on either re-signing Schwartz and Backes or signing Stamkos, assuming he was willing too, I would go for latter, no question about it.

In theory it's possible but I believe it would be a reckless move.

If we assume the Blues move Shatty, that brings the Blues (according to nhlnumbers.com) to almost exactly $20 million in cap space. Lets also aggressively assume Schwartz has a cap hit of $7. So we got $13 to play with.

With Schwartz on board we'd have 8 forwards under contract for next season (not counting entry levels/minor leagues/etc) so we gotta figure Blues need to bring in about 5 or 6 guys and maybe another cheap defensive option to fill out the roster. Either within house or free agents. Let's be optimistic and say Blues sign 4 forwards and a D for $1 million each. Brings the Blues to $8 million in cap space.

That's a tall (and, IMO, reckless) order to spend up to the cap and also get Stamkos to agree to a contract that adjusts for a cap hit of $8 million a year. Or even $9 million a year if we're thrifty. We'd also be against the cap with Jake Allen about to be an RFA next year. As alluded to though we avoid the whole problem if we trade Schwartz or let him be offer-sheeted away from us and take the picks. I'd trade Stamkos for Schwartz in a heartbeat but we'd have to get Stamkos under contract first, obviously.

I don't know. It's possible but it would have to be a phenomenal job on Armstrong's part in putting together a contract structure and Stamkos agreeing to take less than the anticipated $10-12 million a year he could command from almost anyone. It would also mean some very cheap "filling out" options in our bottom 2 offensive lines.

I think it's far more likely Stamkos heads to one of Buffalo, Detroit or Toronto.

Yeah, yeah. But a girl can dream.

[WaukeeBlues]

Panthers sign Keith Yandle to a albatross 7 year, $44 million deal.

They're going to come to regret that one. Way too long term, way too much money for what Yandle is going to bring you IMHO.

According to NHL network radio the Panthers are also shopping Kulikov. The loose explanation was that he'd be too expensive for a 2nd pairing defenseman.

I think the GM in Florida is losing his marbles but that's why I don't get paid to make these decisions I guess...

[Kerfuffle]

Lost my favorite player this weekend in Andrew Shaw #65 and it stings. Knew it would be tough to keep him and he's another cap casualty. So off to Montreal he went for a couple 2nd round picks. Hawks were trying to resign him for $2.5-$3M per and the word was he wanted $4.5M per so clearly they had to deal him. Montreal the bigger winner here - they get a 2 time cup champion, a grinder, an agitator, and one of the hardest workers in the game. I hate to lose him - just hate it. Just love this kid.

[glen a richter]

Heard we're in on the Kyle Okposo sweepstakes. I'd love to see him in the note, but there seems to be so much interest that he'll get the contract he wants and that prices us out.

[Kerfuffle]

Heard we're in on the Kyle Okposo sweepstakes. I'd love to see him in the note, but there seems to be so much interest that he'll get the contract he wants and that prices us out.

What numbers are you hearing that he is looking for?

[Kerfuffle]

Armstrong asking for multiple first round picks in a trade for Shattenkirk --> http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/06/26/rep ... yptr=yahoo

No way he's getting that for a one year rental player.

[dmiles2186]

Heard we're in on the Kyle Okposo sweepstakes. I'd love to see him in the note, but there seems to be so much interest that he'll get the contract he wants and that prices us out.

What numbers are you hearing that he is looking for?

I've not seen any numbers reported, just the the Blues and about 4-5 other teams were in on Okposo.

[glen a richter]

One thing I saw somewhere, maybe here maybe somewhere else, probably somewhere else, is this... do you let someone offer sheet Schwartz and take the picks? I like Jaden but I can see some value in that, it's one less guy to pay when it comes time to retain others later on down the line, and his production can be replaced via free agency. Schwartz out, Okposo in? You have to imagine you're getting some quality 1st rounders in exchange, picks you wouldn't get trading him, or anyone else.

As far as moving Shattenkirk, which will become easier as the offseason wears on and teams fill needs elsewhere, you can get some good offensive minded youth in exchange. Not Dylan Larkin, but maybe Shattenkirk for Max Domi or Anthony Duclair. There's still time for Armstrong to demonstrate the ability to be creative after that dud of a draft. Let's see what he's made of.

[Kerfuffle]

Shaw signed with Habs today - 6 years!! at $3.9M per. Clearly he wanted to get paid and the Habs overpaid. Love him but 4 years max is what you give him. Now I know why we had to trade him - we weren't even in the ballpark to meeting his ask.

[theohall]

One thing I saw somewhere, maybe here maybe somewhere else, probably somewhere else, is this... do you let someone offer sheet Schwartz and take the picks? I like Jaden but I can see some value in that, it's one less guy to pay when it comes time to retain others later on down the line, and his production can be replaced via free agency. Schwartz out, Okposo in? You have to imagine you're getting some quality 1st rounders in exchange, picks you wouldn't get trading him, or anyone else.

As far as moving Shattenkirk, which will become easier as the offseason wears on and teams fill needs elsewhere, you can get some good offensive minded youth in exchange. Not Dylan Larkin, but maybe Shattenkirk for Max Domi or Anthony Duclair. There's still time for Armstrong to demonstrate the ability to be creative after that dud of a draft. Let's see what he's made of.

Hmm... so the Blues worst win-loss records over specific stretches the past two seasons happened when Schwartz was out. But he can easily be replaced?? Doesn't add up. Schwartz returned in January this past season and the Blues, who had just lost several games in a row, immediately started winning again with Schwartz playing a key role in those wins. Not buying the "compensation for Schwartz" being better for the Blues.

Arizona isn't moving their young players who are on entry-level contracts, especially if it will mean having to pay Shattenkirk in comparison after a trade, so forget Duclair or Domi. And especially after taking on the Datsyuk contract. The only players Arizona will move are those older players with big contracts.

[WaukeeBlues]

Shaw signed with Habs today - 6 years!! at $3.9M per. Clearly he wanted to get paid and the Habs overpaid. Love him but 4 years max is what you give him. Now I know why we had to trade him - we weren't even in the ballpark to meeting his ask.

Hard for me to sympathize with you about anything, ever, involving the Blackhawks considering you got to see them raise the cup 3 times

Bowman is going to have to get some kids up from the farm and/or get some CHEAP veterans on July 1.

If nhlnumbers.com is correct they got $7 million in cap space to sign about 4 more forwards and 2 defensemen or so.

$1 million or less a player... that's rough. But again, I don't sympathize. Haha.

My real wonder is if Panarin has anything close to the year he had last season how on earth are they going to pay him? They'd have to get rid of the Hossa contract somehow but he's got a few years left on that puppy. For the first time in his NHL career there were times last season when Hossa looked slow. I think his age is finally starting to catch up to him a little bit.

[WaukeeBlues]

One thing I saw somewhere, maybe here maybe somewhere else, probably somewhere else, is this... do you let someone offer sheet Schwartz and take the picks? I like Jaden but I can see some value in that, it's one less guy to pay when it comes time to retain others later on down the line, and his production can be replaced via free agency. Schwartz out, Okposo in? You have to imagine you're getting some quality 1st rounders in exchange, picks you wouldn't get trading him, or anyone else.

As far as moving Shattenkirk, which will become easier as the offseason wears on and teams fill needs elsewhere, you can get some good offensive minded youth in exchange. Not Dylan Larkin, but maybe Shattenkirk for Max Domi or Anthony Duclair. There's still time for Armstrong to demonstrate the ability to be creative after that dud of a draft. Let's see what he's made of.

Hmm... so the Blues worst win-loss records over specific stretches the past two seasons happened when Schwartz was out. But he can easily be replaced?? Doesn't add up. Schwartz returned in January this past season and the Blues, who had just lost several games in a row, immediately started winning again with Schwartz playing a key role in those wins. Not buying the "compensation for Schwartz" being better for the Blues.

Arizona isn't moving their young players who are on entry-level contracts, especially if it will mean having to pay Shattenkirk in comparison after a trade, so forget Duclair or Domi. And especially after taking on the Datsyuk contract. The only players Arizona will move are those older players with big contracts.

I think "taking the picks" for Schwartz would be a terrible mistake. Unless the offer is an albatross of a contract there's no reason to either. He's one of the youngest and best players we have. If survival in the salary cap world depends on identifying your "core" that you want to keep together and figuring out the rest later... I'd have in my core group of Blues moving forward. I don't know how you wouldn't.

[Kerfuffle]

My real wonder is if Panarin has anything close to the year he had last season how on earth are they going to pay him? They'd have to get rid of the Hossa contract somehow but he's got a few years left on that puppy. For the first time in his NHL career there were times last season when Hossa looked slow. I think his age is finally starting to catch up to him a little bit.

Yeah it will be tough to pay Panarin and he'll get a huge contract at some point but it won't be with us. We have him for one more year on his EL and we're trying to sign him to a bridge deal for 2-3 years after that and then he's gone.

Agree with you on Hossa - had a 12 year contract and we're starting year #8 this fall - so 5 more seasons. He's 37 now and numbers are in decline. He's not the offensive threat he once was but I love his defensive game and his ability to puck handle. When we signed him the first 8 years paid him and then the contract dove the last 4. The thinking (while not admitted to by the team) was Hossa would play 8 years then retire, and wipe off the last 4 years of the deal which only paid him $1M per at that point. This was a cap circumvention strategy from the prior CBA. So while I was not happy about 12 years at the time I was okay after figuring out that we would only have him for 8. But the new CBA was put in place to punish those early contracts and has a recapture feature. I calculate this a couple years ago and if Hossa retires early we have a $4.5M cap per year for the rest of his time left on the deal. So the last 3 years on the deal will be tough when he's old and done and we'll just have to put him on the 4th line for a few minutes each night and ride it out. But in hindsight he won us 3 cups and for that I'm eternally grateful and don't regret the deal.

[WaukeeBlues]

My real wonder is if Panarin has anything close to the year he had last season how on earth are they going to pay him? They'd have to get rid of the Hossa contract somehow but he's got a few years left on that puppy. For the first time in his NHL career there were times last season when Hossa looked slow. I think his age is finally starting to catch up to him a little bit.

Yeah it will be tough to pay Panarin and he'll get a huge contract at some point but it won't be with us. We have him for one more year on his EL and we're trying to sign him to a bridge deal for 2-3 years after that and then he's gone.

Agree with you on Hossa - had a 12 year contract and we're starting year #8 this fall - so 5 more seasons. He's 37 now and numbers are in decline. He's not the offensive threat he once was but I love his defensive game and his ability to puck handle. When we signed him the first 8 years paid him and then the contract dove the last 4. The thinking (while not admitted to by the team) was Hossa would play 8 years then retire, and wipe off the last 4 years of the deal which only paid him $1M per at that point. This was a cap circumvention strategy from the prior CBA. So while I was not happy about 12 years at the time I was okay after figuring out that we would only have him for 8. But the new CBA was put in place to punish those early contracts and has a recapture feature. I calculate this a couple years ago and if Hossa retires early we have a $4.5M cap per year for the rest of his time left on the deal. So the last 3 years on the deal will be tough when he's old and done and we'll just have to put him on the 4th line for a few minutes each night and ride it out. But in hindsight he won us 3 cups and for that I'm eternally grateful and don't regret the deal.

I completely forgot about the recapture thing. That's beautiful.

Haha, yea like I said, hard to complain when you got three cups out of him. He absolutely still has a phenomenal touch on the puck and will be a responsible defensive forward for a lot longer than he'll be an offensive threat, agreed.

You never know though. The hot new trend of the day is for a team with a player like Hossa to deal his contract to a team that can take the cap hit, surrender some picks/prospects to get the cap space gone and then move on. I think the Canucks are in the midst of a nosedive and that the bottom is going to fall out this year so maybe there's your dance partner.

Or the Rangers after they give it one last desperate attempt this season that will fall short and signal the start of a rebuild.

NHL Network radio "speculation" was that Brian Campbell, after raking in, what was it, like $51 million(?) on his last contract could come back to Chicago for a bargain deal to try and win another cup. Thoughts?

[theohall]

Expect some type of movement from Columbus.

Jarmo said at the end of an NHL Radio interview - (paraphrased) - people are saying we are up against the cap. We aren't. There will be plenty of space after the next few days.

Interesting considering currently they only have 5M and have to sign Seth Jones still.

Radio speculation was buy-out for Scott Hartnell or trying to unload David Clarkson, which would be extremely difficult.

[WaukeeBlues]

Expect some type of movement from Columbus.

Jarmo said at the end of an NHL Radio interview - (paraphrased) - people are saying we are up against the cap. We aren't. There will be plenty of space after the next few days.

Interesting considering currently they only have 5M and have to sign Seth Jones still.

Radio speculation was buy-out for Scott Hartnell or trying to unload David Clarkson, which would be extremely difficult.

There it is. Seth Jones, 6 years at $32.4 which boils down to $5.4 per. That's a hell of an extension in my opinion.

Columbus has a LOT of contracts they would like to unload. They got fleeced on Foligno having a one-off year and being overpaid after that, then Hartnell (who, admittedly, is still productive just getting older and I don't think a part of Columbus' future plans), obviously Clarkson, who I don't know WHO would take that contract with 4 years left on it, and then there's Fedor Tyutin with an insane $4.5 million annual cap hit who scored exactly one more goal than I did in the NHL last season.

Easy 4-5 contracts they wish they could dump but can't. Tough times.

[theohall]

As of this moment, Columbus cap space is -.210M.

So I expect to see Hartnell bought out come Friday.

[Kerfuffle]

NHL Network radio "speculation" was that Brian Campbell, after raking in, what was it, like $51 million(?) on his last contract could come back to Chicago for a bargain deal to try and win another cup. Thoughts?

Yeah we've heard a lot on the Brian Campbell thing - he has roots in Chicago so would like to come back home. And we need another D-man. It just depends on how much he really wants. His 8 year deal just ended

[dmiles2186]

They aren't Blues moves but Taylor Hall to NJ for Adam Larsson and then PK Subban to Nash for Shea Weber.

What an afternoon. So the rumor is that Edmonton didn't want to pull the trigger on a Taylor Hall for Shatty deal, but they trade him for Adam Larsson? Hmmm.