Armstrong says we are "Rebuilding"

[theohall]

Blues PP% under Yeo as HC - 19.35% which would be 14th. It was clicking along at 22.08% (top 5 ahead of the friggin' Capitals) before Hitchcock was let go.

The current Blues PP is boring, unimaginative, and easy to defend. The Blues no longer work below the goal line to set up the shot from the slot (Fabbri to Brouwer play). They no longer use the umbrella set up with only one man in the middle, instead of 2, ever. Instead, it's a 1-3-1 every single time with little movement to open lanes, no down low play to force defenders to turn, and no quick high-low-high plays to create more space and lanes for the point men. And this HC is supposed to be a special teams expert... I miss Muller and the variety the Blues used on the PP to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses and keep opponent's PK units guessing as to what the Blues would try next.

That below the goal line play - the Blues had two outstanding opportunities to slide into it vs the Jets, yet, both times, the Blues backed out of it to work exclusively beyond the goal line. The puck would get beneath the goal line to Stastny and Schwartz, instead of opening up in the slot for the pass, would skate to the damn circle in front of Stastny. Then, Statsny would throw the puck back out high and go to the front of the net while Schwartz worked higher in the slot. No lanes opened and the puck did nothing but stay on the outside. This has to be coached, because every time the puck gets below the goal line, the guy who should stay where Brouwer used to score from skates away from that position, instead of opening up and positioning to receive a pass. And NO ONE goes to that prime scoring location. It's stupid!!! Not only does it allow the defense to not worry about protecting the prime scoring area in the slot, it makes the PK easier to play knowing the puck is going to stay on the outside.

[cardsfan04]

Brian Elliott's on a five game winning streak, just broke over .900 and catching fire fast and now that we're veering back into Checketts 2.0 territory, I'll be over in the Flames board, you know, a team and management that really wants to win it all.

Checketts 2.0? Did we unload $20 mil in salary to get to the salary floor that I missed?

[WaukeeBlues]

As this thing lumbers on and we lose games I really am beginning to hope we miss out on the playoffs.

That's right, I said it.

We're not winning the cup this year, that should be obvious. So why get in the playoffs? We don't need "experience" since our core just got a boatload of it last season. So there's no reason to make the playoffs.

I'd rather miss out and have a chance (however slight) to win that lottery and get up into the top three draft picks this summer. Reload for next year.

[cardsfan04]

As this thing lumbers on and we lose games I really am beginning to hope we miss out on the playoffs.

That's right, I said it.

We're not winning the cup this year, that should be obvious. So why get in the playoffs? We don't need "experience" since our core just got a boatload of it last season. So there's no reason to make the playoffs.

I'd rather miss out and have a chance (however slight) to win that lottery and get up into the top three draft picks this summer. Reload for next year.

I can't bring myself to root for that. I'll readily agree that there is possibly more value in that than a 1st round exit though.

That said, I was having a conversation a couple days ago about this. We've been one of the top picks to win the Cup and missed several times. It would almost be fitting if Allen got red hot, Schwartz remembered how to score, and other things fell into place when nobody expects it. I'm in no way predicting that to happen, but the eternal optimist in me keeps wondering "what if . . .?" It just would almost seem fitting that the team that nobody expects anything from is the one that gets it done.

[theohall]

...We've been one of the top picks to win the Cup and missed several times. It would almost be fitting if Allen got red hot, Schwartz remembered how to score, and other things fell into place when nobody expects it. I'm in no way predicting that to happen, but the eternal optimist in me keeps wondering "what if . . .?" It just would almost seem fitting that the team that nobody expects anything from is the one that gets it done.

Well I am all for that happening, I seriously have no hope that it will given this coaching staff. Unless Yeo suddenly backs up his words with actions, we will see the following:
1) veterans not held accountable,
2) lines which don't produce will continue playing together as long as they are veterans
3) a PP stagnating into the bottom half of the league (Wild PP stayed here every year Yeo was HC)
4) only scoring 2.5 Goals/Gm and the coach claiming he will hold players accountable, but will only bench 3rd and 4th liners
5) the continued failure to develop prospects by playing them out of their natural position and only playing them on 3rd and 4th lines, in spite of the top 2 veteran lines not producing

FYI - these were all the things happening in Minnesota while Yeo was the HC. He only got a reprieve when the Wild beat the under-performing Blues in the playoffs. It's started happening with the Blues already.

Given the Blues lines tonight

Schwartz-Stastny-Tarasenko
Steen-Berglund-Perron
Paajarvi-Lehtera-Yakupov
Upshall-Brodziak-Reaves

Veterans aren't being held accountable at all. Only scratches are rookies and a 3rd/4th liner in Jaskin. This group of players, especially Lehtera (1 point without Tarasenko on his line), needs the wake up call which means scratching someone like Lehtera or Schwartz. Unfortunately, the Blues play Colorado so when they win, Yeo will be praised for his brilliant decisions, instead of everyone recognizing it's the friggin' Avalanche - the team with the worst home record (8 wins) in the NHL this season.

[Oaklandblue]

Brian Elliott's on a five game winning streak, just broke over .900 and catching fire fast and now that we're veering back into Checketts 2.0 territory, I'll be over in the Flames board, you know, a team and management that really wants to win it all.

Checketts 2.0? Did we unload $20 mil in salary to get to the salary floor that I missed?

Oh so you truly believe that Stillman can spend to the Cap every year, not win the Cup or go deep in the playoffs without running out of money? If Jake Allen busts, which is looking very likely and with Boomer getting 5+m a year, you got 14m worth of bad contracts to toss (Including Lehtera) just off the top of my head that will need to unloaded. Not quite 20m, but I'd like to see how much longer Stillman can run like this until he has to ship those boys off and run with cheap youth and journeymen. Can't give everyone 6-7m a year contracts without having it bite you in the behind.

The other thing I was going to touch on was that no one in their right mind forces a playoff team into the ground because they don't believe they can win the Cup. You're sending the wrong message to the team and that might be part of the problem. You go full-bore every game, whether you think you got a shot or not and let the chips fall where they lie. We've had stacked teams that couldn't win the Cup, we've had a hot goalie to take us to the Finals and was the only good player we had, we've ran Offense teams, we've ran Defense teams, still nothing. Realistically after 50 years we should just give up anyway.

One thing I hate about management in general and Stillman as well because Armstrong and Yeo (who he hired) is still employed is that there's a sense that it's ran like a business, but not one that really wants to succeed. Stillman is supposed to be a fan and should be able to see what the fans see but either he can't or is inept at running a franchise. I'm sorry, I believe the later. You sign Yeo to be Head Coach when you already got a coach and you double the money spent on goaltending for no apparent reason. Letting Backes and Brouwer walk I was okay with but no replacing them was a sin (Sobotka is NOT a replacement for either).

We can try and blame the players all day every day, but it all starts and ends with the enviornment they work in and the ethic they are required to follow. Until that changes, the outcome will remain the same.

[cardsfan04]

Brian Elliott's on a five game winning streak, just broke over .900 and catching fire fast and now that we're veering back into Checketts 2.0 territory, I'll be over in the Flames board, you know, a team and management that really wants to win it all.

Checketts 2.0? Did we unload $20 mil in salary to get to the salary floor that I missed?

Oh so you truly believe that Stillman can spend to the Cap every year, not win the Cup or go deep in the playoffs without running out of money?

I mean, it takes some pretty enormous leaps to interpret what I said as this. But, regardless, it's pretty silly to compare Stillman (who has spent to the cap from day 1) to Checketts (who hated going over the floor) because you think Stillman might run out of money. That's some minority report stuff.

If Jake Allen busts, which is looking very likely and with Boomer getting 5+m a year, you got 14m worth of bad contracts to toss (Including Lehtera) just off the top of my head that will need to unloaded. Not quite 20m, but I'd like to see how much longer Stillman can run like this until he has to ship those boys off and run with cheap youth and journeymen. Can't give everyone 6-7m a year contracts without having it bite you in the behind.

We have some bad contracts for sure. Bouwmeester and Lehtera are the two obvious ones. I disagree that it looks like Allen is likely to bust though. He had his head up his ass for a month or two, but seems to be on the right track now. That bad stretch may even end up being good for him long term since he will have the experience of overcoming adversity under his belt.

Also worth noting, that none of the contracts you mentioned are $6-7 mil. Only 1 of them is even $5 mil. And the 2 obviously bad ones are off the books in a year.

The other thing I was going to touch on was that no one in their right mind forces a playoff team into the ground because they don't believe they can win the Cup. You're sending the wrong message to the team and that might be part of the problem. You go full-bore every game, whether you think you got a shot or not and let the chips fall where they lie. We've had stacked teams that couldn't win the Cup, we've had a hot goalie to take us to the Finals and was the only good player we had, we've ran Offense teams, we've ran Defense teams, still nothing. Realistically after 50 years we should just give up anyway.

The team currently holds a playoff spot. "Forcing them into the ground" is a bit of an overstatement. Yeah, it's a down year from what we've been having, but it's a transition from our old core to our new core. If we don't make a leap next year, that'll be a different story, but this was expected and isn't an unreasonable arc.

One thing I hate about management in general and Stillman as well because Armstrong and Yeo (who he hired) is still employed is that there's a sense that it's ran like a business, but not one that really wants to succeed. Stillman is supposed to be a fan and should be able to see what the fans see but either he can't or is inept at running a franchise. I'm sorry, I believe the later. You sign Yeo to be Head Coach when you already got a coach and you double the money spent on goaltending for no apparent reason. Letting Backes and Brouwer walk I was okay with but no replacing them was a sin (Sobotka is NOT a replacement for either).

We can try and blame the players all day every day, but it all starts and ends with the enviornment they work in and the ethic they are required to follow. Until that changes, the outcome will remain the same.

I disagree with you on Stillman, but I agree that it's not ALL on the players. Players need to play to their ability, but, yeah, the organization needs to be held to a high standard top to bottom. But, when evaluating that, we have to be realistic at what they are doing too.

[theohall]

I disagree with you on Stillman, but I agree that it's not ALL on the players. Players need to play to their ability, but, yeah, the organization needs to be held to a high standard top to bottom. But, when evaluating that, we have to be realistic at what they are doing too.

Like acquiring Edmonton's 1st round busts, guaranteeing one of them a roster spot for 2 goals in 10 games, playing a center who doesn't deserve to play at all due to friendship with Tarasenko, not playing younger players who aren't given realistic opportunities to prove they can do better and would be cheaper than the 1st round busts and the crappy center, and promising a coach a head coaching gig even though his track record is as a defensive coach during an offensive era??? Those kind of standards??

[cardsfan04]

I disagree with you on Stillman, but I agree that it's not ALL on the players. Players need to play to their ability, but, yeah, the organization needs to be held to a high standard top to bottom. But, when evaluating that, we have to be realistic at what they are doing too.

Like acquiring Edmonton's 1st round busts, guaranteeing one of them a roster spot for 2 goals in 10 games, playing a center who doesn't deserve to play at all due to friendship with Tarasenko, not playing younger players who aren't given realistic opportunities to prove they can do better and would be cheaper than the 1st round busts and the crappy center, and promising a coach a head coaching gig even though his track record is as a defensive coach during an offensive era??? Those kind of standards??

I mean, I think you're overstating how bad some of these things are, but yeah, most of those are definitely worthy of criticism. Whether they are mountains or molehills or somewhere in between, I guess that's up for debate.

[cardsfan04]

Here's why I don't think all of that stuff is as terrible as it is sometimes made out to be:

-Paajarvi. He sucks, clearly. But, we didn't just get him in that trade. We also got a 2nd round pick that we used to draft Barbashev. And we gave up Perron, who at the time, wasn't living up to expectations. That trade was fine.

-Yakupov. Also clearly sucks. We didn't give anything up for him though. Pochiro (who?) and a 3rd round pick. That's not a bad risk-reward for a former number 1 overall pick. Seems clear we're not going to get the reward, but the risk was minimal.

-Lehtera. Yeah, he sucks too. That contract is awful. Not sure if Army misjudged what he was going to be (at the time, he looked like a good player, but such a small sample size) or if he did it to try to make extending Tarasenko easier. Regardless, clearly bad contract as he's not really worth half of his salary. I just think it's a little over the top to get our pitchforks out at Yeo when he gave him the least ice time on the team against the Avs. I don't think it's realistic to sit him for a month and just hope that we don't have injuries heading into the playoffs. That's just asking for trouble and dressing him against the Avs is reasonably inconsequential in the scheme of things. There are better things to make big deals about than this.

-Yeo. I'm not excited about him. I just think his sample size here is too small to judge without pointing to failures he had in Minnesota. And we should be judging him on his time here, not there. There are some concerns for sure (2.5 G/game is bad as is 1.14 points/game--94 point pace). But, it's 14 games. Those rates can change in a heartbeat with a good week. When that's true, the sample size is too small to draw anything meaningful.

[Kerfuffle]

-Yakupov. Also clearly sucks. We didn't give anything up for him though. Pochiro (who?) and a 3rd round pick. That's not a bad risk-reward for a former number 1 overall pick. Seems clear we're not going to get the reward, but the risk was minimal.

What happened with Yakupov? Curious to know what the media is saying down there about him. This was guy the #1 overall pick in 2012 and I'm trying to figure out how he ends up with stats so low. We all thought he was just in a bad situation in Edmonton and needed new scenery but he seems to keep regressing and at this rate I'm wondering if he'll be in the league next year. Is the thought that the scouts just messed up and ranked him wrong, or has there been a fallout in his game that people weren't expecting? Do you think it's lack of effort or poor skill?

[cardsfan04]

-Yakupov. Also clearly sucks. We didn't give anything up for him though. Pochiro (who?) and a 3rd round pick. That's not a bad risk-reward for a former number 1 overall pick. Seems clear we're not going to get the reward, but the risk was minimal.

What happened with Yakupov? Curious to know what the media is saying down there about him. This was guy the #1 overall pick in 2012 and I'm trying to figure out how he ends up with stats so low. We all thought he was just in a bad situation in Edmonton and needed new scenery but he seems to keep regressing and at this rate I'm wondering if he'll be in the league next year. Is the thought that the scouts just messed up and ranked him wrong, or has there been a fallout in his game that people weren't expecting? Do you think it's lack of effort or poor skill?

Hard to pinpoint exactly what the issue is, probably a combo of things. He headlined a weak draft class and his talent was probably overestimated. Then he started in a bad place in Edmonton that has had a few busts like that. Add the pressure of being a number 1 pick (that probably snowballed when he was underachieving), and you get a guy that just can't put it together. We've seen an occasional glimpse at his talent, but it's so infrequent that it's hard to see him lasting much longer in this league. My guess is that he ends up in the KHL before long.

[theohall]

Let's put it this way...

The Blues could have a line with a combination of these four - Barbashev/Sanford/Agostino/Jaskin (that last one is due to roster limits)

Or even replace Jaskin with Blais.

Instead, thanks to Army not sending Paajarvi down which guarantees he's stuck on the Blues limited 23-man roster...

We get the Lehtera/Yakupov/Paajarvi/Jaskin group (40 points combined) while Barbashev and Sanford continue to sit for no apparent reason other than (oh, Paajarvi scored 2 goals, Jaskin is big, Lehtera is a veteran, and I can't say anything good about Yak now). Give Barbashev the 59, soon to be 60, games Lehtera has played he probably gets 40 points by himself.

Which one of those 4 groups do you honestly believe has a better chance at generating offense? How many years does it take before Paajarvi is dumped on the scrap heap. He's been waived twice by this team (last year and this year) and no one in the league claimed him. Given how small his salary is shouldn't that tell you something as a GM??

Is this team committed to icing the team with the best chance at winning? Or placating veteran players who suck? Because it looks alot like the 2nd part.

And there is enough cap room to add Agostino and Blais to this roster, right now.

[glen a richter]

Blais absolutely deserves a chance. Dude's been great after a slow start to his AHL career.

[theohall]

Blais absolutely deserves a chance. Dude's been great after a slow start to his AHL career.

And why Berube had better be on the Blues big club next season, at a minimum as an assistant. He turned that team around with essentially the same roster.

[Kerfuffle]

I hope we play each other again in the first round - I like coming down to St Louis and like Scottrade and the area around it. Hopefully a few folks here could meet up for beers ahead of time or at the game. My kids may have a hockey tournament in St Louis at that time too so that would be fun to come down for that and see a Blues/Hawks game.

[gaijin]

I hope we play each other again in the first round - I like coming down to St Louis and like Scottrade and the area around it. Hopefully a few folks here could meet up for beers ahead of time or at the game. My kids may have a hockey tournament in St Louis at that time too so that would be fun to come down for that and see a Blues/Hawks game.

That's entirely possible. CHI is only 1 point behind MIN for 1st in the Western Conference, and if they win out, and the Blues finish with the 2nd wild card, it's a STL-CHI 1st round matchup.

Alternatively, if CHI finished 2nd in the Central, and the Blues pass NSH for 3rd (also quite possible), it's a STL-CHI 1st round matchup.

While I don't like the Blues chances in that matchup this year, it's hard to argue with such a playoff rivalry on display.

[theohall]

Chicago is the one team I see the Blues having any chance of beating in the playoffs. On paper, Chicago should beat the Blues. However, because of the rivalry and intensity that arises when these teams play, the Blues could beat the 'Hawks simply on "being up" for the games and playing beyond their skill level which tends to happen, but only against the Blackhawks.

A Blues-Wild 1st round will be a mess.

[Toasted Oates]

I don't have high expectations for these Blues either, but I don't fear Minnesota as much as I would Chicago. Really nothing to base that on other than the pedigrees of those respective teams.

If the Hawks got the Blues, they would likely have revenge on their minds. Not that former Cup champs really need the motivation, but it couldn't hurt. Besides, it felt like the Hawks toyed with the Blues in their last matchup. The Wild did a lot of pissing all over themselves last night. I'll take the latter.

With the Blues' aforementioned gravy schedule and as hot as Chicago has been, Hawks take the 1 seed in the Central, Wild the 2, and Blues the 3. There's a good chance we'll see how much of a "mess" it would be.

[Oaklandblue]

Wild are pretenders. I don't fear them. Chicago is the barometer we need to meet to move forward; regardless where the Hawks are in the standings, they have the ability to ramp things up in the playoffs. If anything concerns me, it's Jake Allen in the playoffs. He has to stand tall if the Blues are to have a chance.

My standard of success if for this team to show up and put in 100%. If they do that and lose, I am okay with that. This team has the weird tendency to start late in the game or fizzle out early on. If Yeo can keep a line combination that works and force just that one ethic on the team as a whole, they will succeed.

As to respond to the long post I put up earlier and the longer response I got from it, look: The team has investors and you can not tell me that they aren't losing money on the Blues. This team needs to show leaps and bounds of success for them to continue to approve money towards the team. For them it's a business and the only way that this last off season makes sense* is if it was a financial cost-controlled move due to finances.

Letting Backes and Brouwer walk makes sense; they got treated as a rental for a playoff run and I'm cool with that. My mind keeps telling me 'wouldn't it have been better to trade Lehtera with next year's first, a weak draft year, as a Cap Dump and signed Backes to what he asked for? Yeah it sounds like a lot of money, but Backes has been a rock and an underrated part of this team. While I am onboard with building with the future, without veterans like him and Pie, etc. this team won't succeed.


* Signing Allen and Yeo to a long-term contract "sight unseen" - Jake Allen has played 60ish games in the NHL in his ENTIRE career and that allots him to make 4m a year? We complained about Berglund getting a hair under 4x5 and he's proven over the course of HUNDREDS of games to be consistent with a serious upside to him when healthy.

While I can hear people say how good Allen is in the regular season, he is a disaster in the playoffs; we have proven we can make the playoffs, now we need players who can succeed there and if he can't, it's a bad contract regardless how one thinks; if you aren't out to win the Cup when you can make the playoffs, you're doing the team and it's fans a disservice and making the players feel as if their hard work isn't appreciated or valued and when players feel that way, they stop playing hard, they don't shift up that extra gear and it becomes a failure all around with fingers pointing at everyone.