Kramer drops the n bomb on stage...

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Postby the knob » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:17 pm

goon attack wrote:Ahhhhh, they have Gloria "men are pigs" Allred as their attorney. :lol:

They want money. Gloria just called them "victims." They want a "retired judge" to arbitrate a monetary settlement after Richards sits down with them "man to man" and sees the "pain and suffering" he has caused.

One 'victim': "He should be punished. I just want an amount that is fair. I was humiliated."


Just watched the video on FoxNews.com and was most amused. Who knew Michael Richards able to launch "verbal missiles" at these poor young men. I love the whole "reward awarded by a retired judge" gimmick, I'm sure Gloria has just the right one signed up and ready to go already, never mind it's a civil not criminal issue.
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Postby Twisted Mama » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:19 pm

Hollywood, I'll protect you! I totally agree about with not asking for special treatment if you want to be equal.



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Postby Hollywood » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:38 pm

Twisted Mama wrote:Hollywood, I'll protect you! I totally agree about with not asking for special treatment if you want to be equal.



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Postby Ken Wilson » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:13 pm

Hollywood wrote:I freaking live on delmar north of the loop. I have lived there my whole life. Grew up there, live there today. So what are you saying?


That you're a black criminal.....


Sorry I'm late to this thread....but this is the best one on the net....
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Postby mdc312 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:25 pm

Ken Wilson wrote:
Hollywood wrote:I freaking live on delmar north of the loop. I have lived there my whole life. Grew up there, live there today. So what are you saying?


That you're a black criminal.....



i didnt say that at all. i said you have to watch your back. how is that not an intelligent thing to do? :roll:
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Postby Chudman82 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:13 pm

just my own 2 cents. i watched the video and he said some really crazy shit-idiocy. I mean, someone drops the n-bomb, it really doesn't faze me that much, I've seen and heard enough white people using it casually/liberally that for the most part i just roll with the punches. The part that caught me off guard was just how long the tirade was, not to mention the hanging upside down with a fork up your ass part...lynchings anyone?

And yea, this wasn't part of an act, this wasn't comedy with layers of cultural satire meant to point out the verbal inequities of the word nigger. like someone else said before, kramer melted like no other. this was a full 2+ minute meltage complete with descriptions of what he'd do if this was 50 years ago.

as far as the "victims" seeking some recompense from kramer, that is gutless. to think that this sort of tirade can be smoothed over by money is ridiculous. IMO, there's very little that kramer can do to remove this stain on his character.

and finally, as already said, kramer's response and some of the responses on the board show some of the hatred/vitriol that's bubbling just below the surface...on both sides of the issue. no matter how much gloss we put over the bull-shit, every now and then someone raises a stink like this just to remind us that things really haven't changed that much. and yes, i am black, i know you were really curious.
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Postby GuyLegend99 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:58 pm

big d note wrote:[img:768:400]http://home.comcast.net/~anarce/Photos/Misc/salute.jpg[/img]


big d note wrote:[img:401:512]http://home.comcast.net/~anarce/Photos/Misc/seinfeld.jpg[/img]


:lol:

ledzeppelinfan1 wrote:I'm gonna be honest, I don't like many black people for reasons they have demonstrated through their own behavior.

There are nice black people and yes there are niggers, and I hate them. Sue me.

And, ya know, for acting so tough like they (blacks) do, it sure is funny how whiny and sensitive they become when someone says something like this.

Just wish they'd stuff their chicken back in their mouth and shut the fk up.


Wow.......funny how you claim that America is such a great place when at the very same time you're hurling crap like this..... :roll:
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Postby GuyLegend99 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:14 pm

OS wrote:Going back to the original topic of this thread....

There's no doubt that (#$@%!) up and calling someone a nigger is never appropriate. However, I don't think this is that big of a deal. Let me ask you this, if a woman cuts you off and you yell "Stupid Bitch" out the window, does that mean you think less of all women? Of course not. Then why do we assume that anyone that ever uses the word nigger in a moment of rage is automatically a racist? Obviously, I don't know Michael Richards' opinion of black people as race. Maybe he does hate black people. But there is a huge difference between using that word when you are pissed off at one particular person who happens to be black and using it in your everyday vocabulary when you are talking about a black person. Like I said, it's never appropriate, but saying it once doesn't make a man a racist.


I haven't seen the video but under the circumstances described (the hecklers screaming obscenties with a racial overtone) at Richards, I would never be convinced that Kramer is a racist from this single incident. Simply put, the hecklers were just as bad as Richards and the incident was just an ugly confrontation of anger. Nobody was really discriminated against or insulted.

With that said, I couldn't compare using slangs or any type of offensive words/phrases with gender and race. The concept of race is complete bull, i.e. there is no real basis for separting one out. With women on the other hand....well we know that there are differences between us. If one were to call a girl a bitch or slut after a bad date, etc. I could be understanding of the situation. A racial or religious slur of anykind never has a place (and more often than not always a product of real hate), just as you stated in the beginning.
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Postby Chudman82 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:08 am

GuyLegend99 wrote:
OS wrote:Going back to the original topic of this thread....

There's no doubt that (#$@%!) up and calling someone a nigger is never appropriate. However, I don't think this is that big of a deal. Let me ask you this, if a woman cuts you off and you yell "Stupid Bitch" out the window, does that mean you think less of all women? Of course not. Then why do we assume that anyone that ever uses the word nigger in a moment of rage is automatically a racist? Obviously, I don't know Michael Richards' opinion of black people as race. Maybe he does hate black people. But there is a huge difference between using that word when you are pissed off at one particular person who happens to be black and using it in your everyday vocabulary when you are talking about a black person. Like I said, it's never appropriate, but saying it once doesn't make a man a racist.


I haven't seen the video but under the circumstances described (the hecklers screaming obscenties with a racial overtone) at Richards, I would never be convinced that Kramer is a racist from this single incident. Simply put, the hecklers were just as bad as Richards and the incident was just an ugly confrontation of anger. Nobody was really discriminated against or insulted.

With that said, I couldn't compare using slangs or any type of offensive words/phrases with gender and race. The concept of race is complete bull, i.e. there is no real basis for separting one out. With women on the other hand....well we know that there are differences between us. If one were to call a girl a bitch or slut after a bad date, etc. I could be understanding of the situation. A racial or religious slur of anykind never has a place (and more often than not always a product of real hate), just as you stated in the beginning.


Even if Richards was initially provoked by racial epithets(which I believe he wasn't, those came after his outburst, at least in the video), it still does not excuse his rant. Any quip from a heckler doesn't warrant 2 and a half minutes of racial meltage. Notice, it's one quip versus 2 and a half minutes worth of response...that's a big difference.

On a secondary note, any comedian, especially a supposedly veteran comedian like Richards, should be used to hecklers at his show. I can understand a quick outburst, hell, as I said in my earlier post, a little racial outburst in response to heckling, is par for the course. But again, he went on for almost 3 minutes, ranting and raving about hanging niggers upside down and saying he could buy any of them in the audience. Again, it's not just the content of the rant, it's also the length and passion with which he said it.

So I'll have to disagree with you and say that he's racist. Besides, he damn near admits as such in the video. He says, "Ooh, it shocks you to see what's buried beneath, you stupid motherf****rs." So apparently he's been carrying this around for some time and it just happened to erupt. But I digress.
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Postby Twisted Mama » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:53 am

Don't know if he is a racist or just a dumbass. His career is shot.
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Postby goon attack » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:41 am

Chudman82 wrote:yes, i am black, i know you were really curious.


I wasn't. I don't think most people care all that much.
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Postby goon attack » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:46 am

Chudman82 wrote:So I'll have to disagree with you and say that he's racist.


Define "racist."

I thought racism meant discrimination, prejudice, believing one race is superior to another.

Just because he got mad and went to the most offensive thing available isn't "racism" in my conception of the word. He used a very offensive racial term with a racist history, but he never professed any race supremacy nor prevented either of these men from getting a job or renting a house etc.....

It's a hair I like to split because I don't think mere words can equate racism. What he said was ill-advised, insensitive, rude, and vile....but that doesn't fit my idea of racism.
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Postby Hollywood » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:04 am

i am black, i know you were really curious.


There is no way that is true. This is a hockey forum and we all know that black guys don't like hockey.


I look at this example of the white man once again keepin' the black man down and found out why there were no black people in hockey. First, it's cold out there! Second, we might get our gold teeth knocked out! Third, we have no desire to dominate another professional sport. And, finally, no brother is going to go anywhere there is a bunch of crazy white people wearin' masks and carryin' sticks!
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Postby big d note » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:10 am

goon attack wrote:
Chudman82 wrote:So I'll have to disagree with you and say that he's racist.


Define "racist."

I thought racism meant discrimination, prejudice, believing one race is superior to another.

Just because he got mad and went to the most offensive thing available isn't "racism" in my conception of the word. He used a very offensive racial term with a racist history, but he never professed any race supremacy nor prevented either of these men from getting a job or renting a house etc.....

It's a hair I like to split because I don't think mere words can equate racism. What he said was ill-advised, insensitive, rude, and vile....but that doesn't fit my idea of racism.

You can demonstrate prejudice in words as well as actions. It's still racism.
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Postby goon attack » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:27 am

big d note wrote:You can demonstrate prejudice in words as well as actions. It's still racism.


So, how did Richards demonstrate racism? He used a slur as invective.

That's racism?
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Postby Hollywood » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:42 am

goon attack wrote:
big d note wrote:You can demonstrate prejudice in words as well as actions. It's still racism.


So, how did Richards demonstrate racism? He used a slur as invective.

That's racism?



Would you consider the following comments as demonstrating racism?



"I'm gonna be honest, I don't like many black people"

"I hate them"

"Just wish they'd stuff their chicken back in their mouth and shut the fk up."
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Postby big d note » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:56 am

goon attack wrote:
big d note wrote:You can demonstrate prejudice in words as well as actions. It's still racism.


So, how did Richards demonstrate racism? He used a slur as invective.

That's racism?

I honestly haven't watched the whole video, but didn't he say something about (paraphrasing) "that's what you get for interrupting a white man"? I'd say that fits into the prejudice and superiority part of your racism definition.
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Postby sanscrit » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:04 am

big d note wrote:
goon attack wrote:
big d note wrote:You can demonstrate prejudice in words as well as actions. It's still racism.


So, how did Richards demonstrate racism? He used a slur as invective.

That's racism?

I honestly haven't watched the whole video, but didn't he say something about (paraphrasing) "that's what you get for interrupting a white man"? I'd say that fits into the prejudice and superiority part of your racism definition.


you have to say "Good man, I do feel that the race of my origin is in all ways superior to the race of your origin. That includes all areas in respect to intelligence, manners, and good sense. If I had my way, you would be deprived of all means to provide food and shelter for you and yours. Good day!" for it to be racist.
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Postby Twisted Mama » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:14 am

Ignorant statements do not constitute racism. Causing a recognized group a disadvantage does. Racisim is not about 'color', but more about a potential or actual loss.
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Postby Chudman82 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:47 pm

Twisted Mama wrote:Ignorant statements do not constitute racism. Causing a recognized group a disadvantage does. Racisim is not about 'color', but more about a potential or actual loss.


ignorant statements that put on display your own thoughts on race, are racist. whether you say whites would be better off with niggers hanging upside down with forks up their ass or vice versa, it still puts your thoughts on display for the whole world to see. just because he didn't cost anybody a job, or something tangible, doesn't make his statements any less racist.

and uh...racism is not about color? are you living in the same universe i'm living in? seriously. pretty soon you'll start saying that those black people who you claim collect welfare checks in order to buy beemers and big screen TVs aren't black, they just happen to have a year-round tan.
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