Future of the Rivermen?

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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby TruthBeTold » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:22 am

blueline wrote:
TruthBeTold wrote:And for the record, KC has the inside track to be the next home of the franchise. Big, new, spacious, EMPTY building in need of a high-level team. With no NHL options, the AHL is obviously the next choice as far as KC is concerned.



Since this is your second post....Do you have any facts on the "inside track" I have heard rumors regarding Kansas City. What is your level of confidence with the team bolting Peoria? Please elaborate.


Nope, no facts, just pure speculation. KC has been trying to get an NHL team, which would play in the Sprint Center, since the Nashville Preds were on the sale block. There are two ways to get into the NHL...relocation of another franchise and expansion. Niether is being talked about, at least for a couple of years. Eventually, the Sprint Center will have to get some tenants and some cash coming in.

In December, the place has had two concerts:Niel Diamond and the Cheetah Girls; one K-State basketball game and one Kansas basketball game, and a weekend of the "Radio City Spectacular", featuring the Rockettes. The place also sat or will sit empty for 24 of the 31 days of the month. With no immediate future in the NHL, with no immediate future in the NBA, and with no minor league basketball system what-so-ever (and now with no AFL season in 2009!), what would be the next best option to put a regular sports tenant in the building? Yep.

I think it's just a matter of MONTHS before someone announces they are moving their AHL team to KC...Anaheim has been previously discussed, Dallas has been mentioned, and St. Louis. St. Louis, being right across the state, is the natural choice. If Bruce Saurs were still the sole owner of Peoria, then I wouldn't think it would happen. But the Blues bought the team. They have no such allegiance to Peoria that Bruce has. Their attendance is woeful. The arena, despite great efforts to improve it in the last few years, does not provide the amenities and facilities that the Sprint Center does. That should go without saying.

So, no facts...yet...but plenty of circumstantial evidence pointing in that direction.
Last edited by TruthBeTold on Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby 210 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:29 am

TruthBeTold wrote:and with no minor league basketball system what-so-ever


http://www.nba.com/dleague/

There has been lots of discussion on other boards about the viability of the KC market for hockey, and unless a potential AHL owner has very deep pockets it probably isn't going to happen.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby TruthBeTold » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:43 am

WaukeeBlues wrote:
210 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
F Keenan wrote:I agree with OS, Indy would work very well. Racers????


I don't think Indianapolis would be the way to go.

The Indiana Ice USHL team pull what VERY few hockey fans are around Central Indiana, none of the colleges in Indiana have NCAA hockey teams, and the Ft. Wayne Comets are the only semi-pro team that has made it in Indiana. We're just not a hockey state.

Not only that, IIRC, there isn't a place to put them. I don't think Indy has the rink to even HAVE an AHL team.

And if football doesn't compete with your hockey attendance- basketball unquestionably WILL.


Semi-pro?


IHL, my bad :lol:


The Indianapolis Ice of the original IHL had a nice run for 11 years, including an IHL Turner Cup title. They played five years in the Central Hockey League, but logistics dictated that they SHOULD have been in the ECHL or UHL during that time, and most feel they would have been much more successful off the ice if they would have been in one of those leagues with natural rivals, be they Ft. Wayne, Dayton, Toledo, or Peoria.

Regarding facilities, Conseco Fieldhouse is an awesome barn, and is currently used to host USHL games at times for the Indiana Ice. What a shame. the USHL is great, but it's best in 2,500-3,000 seat arenas, not NBA-size arenas. Indy has quite the fine facility for AHL hockey. Period.

And finally, so far this year, only Hershey in the AHL draws more than Ft. Wayne (in the six-team IHL) in ALL of minor league hockey. Ft. Wayne draws over 8,200 per game this year. AVERAGE. Peoria hasn't had one single night over 8,200 that I can remember...maybe back to the visit from the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders way back when the ECHL first came to town.

Promoted properly, done right, fans treated well, high entertainment value ON TOP OF the hockey game...Ft. Wayne must do all of those things. When all of those things ARE done right, the level of hockey makes no difference, and neither does the LOCATION. Remember when the crown jewel of minor league hockey was in Louisiana, of all places? So to say that Indy wouldn't be the place...how is one to know for sure? Answer: You can't know. No one can. All it takes is an ownership and management group that knows what it takes to tap into the uniqueness of it's city to be successful.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby TruthBeTold » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:58 am

210 wrote:
TruthBeTold wrote:and with no minor league basketball system what-so-ever


http://www.nba.com/dleague/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There has been lots of discussion on other boards about the viability of the KC market for hockey, and unless a potential AHL owner has very deep pockets it probably isn't going to happen.


I'm definitely aware of the "D-League", and the departed (killed by Isiah Thomas) CBA. But the D-league...and the NBA...have a long way to go before a minor league "system" is as developed as even hockey. Baseball still hast he most organized (and longest-running) system. Hockey, with the ECHL feeding the AHL feeding the NHL, is much more advanced than the D-league, which, to it's credit has grown the last few years...but "attendance" is still a word used loosely in the league. (An Arkansas based team supposedly averaged 300 per game about three years ago, but they also supposedly padded that figure to even get it THAT high! LOL) Also, to the league's credit, they've gone from four teams in the NBA feeding each D-league team to two or three, still a far cry from one team/one affiliate in baseball and pretty much in the AHL, but also, last year, 11 NBA teams assigned NO players to the D-league, meaning they really had no "minor leaguers". So, that system is far from in place, in my opinion.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby 210 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:14 am

TruthBeTold wrote:
210 wrote:
TruthBeTold wrote:and with no minor league basketball system what-so-ever


http://www.nba.com/dleague/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There has been lots of discussion on other boards about the viability of the KC market for hockey, and unless a potential AHL owner has very deep pockets it probably isn't going to happen.


I'm definitely aware of the "D-League", and the departed (killed by Isiah Thomas) CBA. But the D-league...and the NBA...have a long way to go before a minor league "system" is as developed as even hockey. Baseball still hast he most organized (and longest-running) system. Hockey, with the ECHL feeding the AHL feeding the NHL, is much more advanced than the D-league, which, to it's credit has grown the last few years...but "attendance" is still a word used loosely in the league. (An Arkansas based team supposedly averaged 300 per game about three years ago, but they also supposedly padded that figure to even get it THAT high! LOL) Also, to the league's credit, they've gone from four teams in the NBA feeding each D-league team to two or three, still a far cry from one team/one affiliate in baseball and pretty much in the AHL, but also, last year, 11 NBA teams assigned NO players to the D-league, meaning they really had no "minor leaguers". So, that system is far from in place, in my opinion.


So you go from saying the NBA has no minor league to explaining the one that exists away....interesting.

Anything else you'd like to explain away? :lol:
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby Airmule » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:03 pm

TruthBeTold wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
210 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
F Keenan wrote:I agree with OS, Indy would work very well. Racers????



Promoted properly, done right, fans treated well, high entertainment value ON TOP OF the hockey game...Ft. Wayne must do all of those things. When all of those things ARE done right, the level of hockey makes no difference, and neither does the LOCATION. Remember when the crown jewel of minor league hockey was in Louisiana, of all places? So to say that Indy wouldn't be the place...how is one to know for sure? Answer: You can't know. No one can. All it takes is an ownership and management group that knows what it takes to tap into the uniqueness of it's city to be successful.


All the things you mention above, Peoria has failed miserably at each one. And the fact washed up wrestlers and teeny bopper stars are called entertainment is just disgusting. Yes, it got them in the door and they got to count them in attendance figures. Most stood in line all night and then left right after getting their picture with a WWE star or a teeny autograph. You couldn't make the environment in Peoria more sterile and boring if you tried.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:50 pm

TruthBeTold wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
210 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
F Keenan wrote:I agree with OS, Indy would work very well. Racers????


I don't think Indianapolis would be the way to go.

The Indiana Ice USHL team pull what VERY few hockey fans are around Central Indiana, none of the colleges in Indiana have NCAA hockey teams, and the Ft. Wayne Comets are the only semi-pro team that has made it in Indiana. We're just not a hockey state.

Not only that, IIRC, there isn't a place to put them. I don't think Indy has the rink to even HAVE an AHL team.

And if football doesn't compete with your hockey attendance- basketball unquestionably WILL.


Semi-pro?


IHL, my bad :lol:


The Indianapolis Ice of the original IHL had a nice run for 11 years, including an IHL Turner Cup title. They played five years in the Central Hockey League, but logistics dictated that they SHOULD have been in the ECHL or UHL during that time, and most feel they would have been much more successful off the ice if they would have been in one of those leagues with natural rivals, be they Ft. Wayne, Dayton, Toledo, or Peoria.

Regarding facilities, Conseco Fieldhouse is an awesome barn, and is currently used to host USHL games at times for the Indiana Ice. What a shame. the USHL is great, but it's best in 2,500-3,000 seat arenas, not NBA-size arenas. Indy has quite the fine facility for AHL hockey. Period.

And finally, so far this year, only Hershey in the AHL draws more than Ft. Wayne (in the six-team IHL) in ALL of minor league hockey. Ft. Wayne draws over 8,200 per game this year. AVERAGE. Peoria hasn't had one single night over 8,200 that I can remember...maybe back to the visit from the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders way back when the ECHL first came to town.

Promoted properly, done right, fans treated well, high entertainment value ON TOP OF the hockey game...Ft. Wayne must do all of those things. When all of those things ARE done right, the level of hockey makes no difference, and neither does the LOCATION. Remember when the crown jewel of minor league hockey was in Louisiana, of all places? So to say that Indy wouldn't be the place...how is one to know for sure? Answer: You can't know. No one can. All it takes is an ownership and management group that knows what it takes to tap into the uniqueness of it's city to be successful.


Very good points.

Yea, I didn't know about Conseco Fieldhouse- only place I've played downtown was in that international dual-rink place that they got next to the RCA Dome- don't know the name of it.

As far as the Indiana Pacers go (which was what I was referring to with the "basketball attendance being interefering") I got to thinking- are they even pulling very good attendance? I know the team has had a couple of rough years but not being an NBA fan in any sense of the word I have no idea.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby Kyle1512 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:11 pm

I am pretty sure that Kansas City arena ownership wants nothing less than NHL hockey. Indy wants nothing more than the USHL. Sure that the AHL isn't going to allow the teams to get anymore West than the teams in Texas.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby TruthBeTold » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:08 pm

210 wrote:
TruthBeTold wrote:
210 wrote:
TruthBeTold wrote:and with no minor league basketball system what-so-ever


http://www.nba.com/dleague/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There has been lots of discussion on other boards about the viability of the KC market for hockey, and unless a potential AHL owner has very deep pockets it probably isn't going to happen.


I'm definitely aware of the "D-League", and the departed (killed by Isiah Thomas) CBA. But the D-league...and the NBA...have a long way to go before a minor league "system" is as developed as even hockey. Baseball still hast he most organized (and longest-running) system. Hockey, with the ECHL feeding the AHL feeding the NHL, is much more advanced than the D-league, which, to it's credit has grown the last few years...but "attendance" is still a word used loosely in the league. (An Arkansas based team supposedly averaged 300 per game about three years ago, but they also supposedly padded that figure to even get it THAT high! LOL) Also, to the league's credit, they've gone from four teams in the NBA feeding each D-league team to two or three, still a far cry from one team/one affiliate in baseball and pretty much in the AHL, but also, last year, 11 NBA teams assigned NO players to the D-league, meaning they really had no "minor leaguers". So, that system is far from in place, in my opinion.


So you go from saying the NBA has no minor league to explaining the one that exists away....interesting.

Anything else you'd like to explain away? :lol:


Did you completely read what I wrote? I said they have a system that is far from being in place, not even remotely close to hockey's. So when I said "no system what-so-ever", that's what it means...they've got a few fly-by-night teams masquerading as a "minor league" when indeed it's about as close to being a true minor league as the semi-pro indoor football leagues popping up all over the country. Compared to baseball and hockey...basketball has no minor league...unless you count NCAA Division 1.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby 210 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:52 am

TruthBeTold wrote:Did you completely read what I wrote? I said they have a system that is far from being in place, not even remotely close to hockey's. So when I said "no system what-so-ever", that's what it means...they've got a few fly-by-night teams masquerading as a "minor league" when indeed it's about as close to being a true minor league as the semi-pro indoor football leagues popping up all over the country. Compared to baseball and hockey...basketball has no minor league...unless you count NCAA Division 1.


So they have one but they don't have one....OK, whatever you say. :lol:
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby section319 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:40 pm

210 wrote:
TruthBeTold wrote:Did you completely read what I wrote? I said they have a system that is far from being in place, not even remotely close to hockey's. So when I said "no system what-so-ever", that's what it means...they've got a few fly-by-night teams masquerading as a "minor league" when indeed it's about as close to being a true minor league as the semi-pro indoor football leagues popping up all over the country. Compared to baseball and hockey...basketball has no minor league...unless you count NCAA Division 1.


So they have one but they don't have one....OK, whatever you say. :lol:



Really pushing it this much? Give it up the man admitted they have a shitty minor league system, that is barely a minor league system at all. Who cares give it up.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby 210 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:16 am

section319 wrote:
210 wrote:
TruthBeTold wrote:Did you completely read what I wrote? I said they have a system that is far from being in place, not even remotely close to hockey's. So when I said "no system what-so-ever", that's what it means...they've got a few fly-by-night teams masquerading as a "minor league" when indeed it's about as close to being a true minor league as the semi-pro indoor football leagues popping up all over the country. Compared to baseball and hockey...basketball has no minor league...unless you count NCAA Division 1.


So they have one but they don't have one....OK, whatever you say. :lol:



Really pushing it this much? Give it up the man admitted they have a shitty minor league system, that is barely a minor league system at all. Who cares give it up.


I'd like to invite you to have relations with yourself.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby #1ELPBluzFan » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:14 pm

IMO, KC is a good bet. KC used to be where the Blues farm hands went back in the early days of Blues hockey (Late 60's and early 70's) and KC has a new facility looking for tenants. If the NHL is not going to expand (and it looks like they won't) KC seems just as logical as anywhere else.
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Re: Future of the Rivermen?

Postby cprice12 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:14 pm

Mellanby_equals_grit wrote:I don't know about the business specifics, but.. What about Carbondale?


There's not a hockey arena in or around Carbondale.
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