Coyote soap opera...

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Coyote soap opera...

Postby Philo » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:45 am

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=284305



Why doesn't the NHL just shut the team down and auction off the players or sell it and move it to Canada ? don't think the team will ever make money in Phoenix.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby Bernie Federko » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:06 am

There are studies out there that directly link Pang's color commentary and the financial instability of the Coyotes. Just sayin'. Something to think about.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby theohall » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:21 am

Hey Bernie,

I hear there is an opening in Phoenix for a color commentator. Maybe you could get them in the playoffs. ;)
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby Bernie Federko » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:24 am

theohall wrote:Hey Bernie,

I hear there is an opening in Phoenix for a color commentator. Maybe you could get them in the playoffs. ;)


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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:17 pm

Philo wrote:http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=284305



Why doesn't the NHL just shut the team down and auction off the players or sell it and move it to Canada ? don't think the team will ever make money in Phoenix.


To me, it sounds like there are just enough important and wealthy people who want the team to stay in Glendale that makes this a battle. I think the majority of hockey fans would want to see the franchise back in Canada and from the sound of it- the NHL execs want that too. But there's enough money and people fighting it that the team's future isn't open and shut.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby Ruutu15 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:20 pm

I for one hope the team stays in Phoenix. All of you guys who are so "Canada!!!111!!1!" right before each nutshot fail to realize that they hate YOUR team too. In my experience, Canadian fans like Canadian teams and think that every US team should be relocated north of the border to some city who can't even support an AHL team (see: Hamilton).
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby WaukeeBlues » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:22 am

Ruutu15 wrote:I for one hope the team stays in Phoenix. All of you guys who are so "Canada!!!111!!1!" right before each nutshot fail to realize that they hate YOUR team too. In my experience, Canadian fans like Canadian teams and think that every US team should be relocated north of the border to some city who can't even support an AHL team (see: Hamilton).


And what's wrong with that? United States sports leagues are cocky and often not even where the most possible place to play the game is even located. Nothing annoys me more then the "World Champions" BS title slapped on the NBA and MLB title winners. I simply feel that true hockey fans (not saying you're not) know that the roots of the game are in the north and that having teams in locations like Phoenix, Tampa, etc are sell-outs to pro sports capitalism, ignoring the markets where the sport was born. The NHL obviously isn't the only sports league that does this, but the more teams in the north, the better.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby ksbluesfan » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:16 am

Move them to Kansas City.

:grin:
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby philco_3 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:53 pm

ksbluesfan wrote:Move them to Kansas City.

:grin:


Eh KC would be better off with a brand new franchisee.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby Ruutu15 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:35 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:
Ruutu15 wrote:I for one hope the team stays in Phoenix. All of you guys who are so "Canada!!!111!!1!" right before each nutshot fail to realize that they hate YOUR team too. In my experience, Canadian fans like Canadian teams and think that every US team should be relocated north of the border to some city who can't even support an AHL team (see: Hamilton).


And what's wrong with that? United States sports leagues are cocky and often not even where the most possible place to play the game is even located. Nothing annoys me more then the "World Champions" BS title slapped on the NBA and MLB title winners. I simply feel that true hockey fans (not saying you're not) know that the roots of the game are in the north and that having teams in locations like Phoenix, Tampa, etc are sell-outs to pro sports capitalism, ignoring the markets where the sport was born. The NHL obviously isn't the only sports league that does this, but the more teams in the north, the better.


The World Series bothers you? Get any baseball team you'd like from elsewhere in the world, and they'd be lucky to not get blown out by 10 runs in each game of a short 7-game series.

They aren't ignoring markets where the game was born. There are two teams that serve the Southern Ontario market, those being Toronto and Buffalo. Hamilton has an AHL team that consistently inflates their attendance numbers. And seriously, how can you fault the NHL for this? The team ownership had no problem agreeing to a DECADES long lease with the city of Glendale...how many years ago was that? Norm Green moved the North Stars to Dallas...the NHL didn't force him. No one in Minnesota was going to games until they announced that the team was leaving, to which everyone came out of the woodwork in support of the North Stars. Tampa Bay got an expansion team because it was backed by the Espositos and because the team put up the huge expansion fee. Ottawa also got a team.

If you're going to say that markets are under served, it's a mistake to make that claim in regards to So Ontario. Winnipeg is the only city in Canada that you could make an argument for, and they're even on the fringe.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby TSUCookieMonster » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:25 am

theohall wrote:Hey Bernie,

I hear there is an opening in Phoenix for a color commentator. Maybe you could get them in the playoffs. ;)


Not so fast offering Bernie that job: http://www.stlouisgametime.com/2009/1/6 ... ow-tyson-n


When the Jets relocated to Arizona, I thought "hey, that's kind of unique... a hockey team in Arizona." I was also like 13...

Now it just seems dumb, given they've lost so much money... it's like putting a band aide on a gunshot wound or something...
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby Ruutu15 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:14 pm

I've heard everyone say how much it sucks that Phoenix has a team, and I respect that opinion. I still haven't heard a legit counter to my biggest gripe with that. The team JUST signed a decades-long lease with the city of Glendale. Glendale just built a new state of the art arena specifically for the Coyotes because they asked for it. The Coyotes knew their attendance woes before they signed the dotted line. Why should they, only a couple of years after, be able to pick up and leave Glendale holding the bag?

The Jets leaving Winnipeg sucked, but it is not the issue here. The city of Winnipeg (and the entire province of Manitoba) actually SAVED money when the Jets moved, because they were on the hook for every cent of the Jets losses, which were huge. That's right...the team had it in their deal with the province that when they lost money (which they did every season), the province had to reimburse the ownership. Everyone forgets that in the nostalgia, or maybe they aren't old enough to remember the business reasons for the Jets leaving. I understand that Phoenix may not be an ideal location, but neither was Anaheim or Dallas. The Jets franchise has NEVER been good...it wasn't worth a shit in Winnipeg, and it hasn't been in Phoenix either. When a team moves to a new area, specifically a non-traditional market, once the newness wears off people have no reason to go...there is no culture of the sport.

So, I would like for someone to tell me why the team should be able to pick up and leave a mere 5 years after demanding a new arena with tax money. I have issues with moving the team in general, but I have SERIOUS issues with them moving to Hamilton which already has two NHL teams within reasonable distance.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby philco_3 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:31 pm

Well just when I think Hamilton wouldn't get it another chance...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=286860
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby gaijin » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:05 pm

philco_3 wrote:Well just when I think Hamilton wouldn't get it another chance...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=286860


Good Lord. This is a soap opera.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby philco_3 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:00 pm

...like sand through an hour glass, these are the days of our lives.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby gaijin » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:50 am

philco_3 wrote:...like sand through an hour glass, these are the days of our lives.


Now if we could only get Wayne Gretzky to say that on camera at the beginning of each game...
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:28 pm

Ruutu15 wrote:The Jets franchise has NEVER been good...it wasn't worth a shit in Winnipeg, and it hasn't been in Phoenix either. When a team moves to a new area, specifically a non-traditional market, once the newness wears off people have no reason to go...there is no culture of the sport.


This is why.

I wouldn't want to see it go to Hamilton either, but I would prefer to see it go to Canada then something like (just an example) Kansas City or something.

If Glendale knew the risks when they signed their city over to the team, they also should have considered the fact that they are exactly that- Glendale. ARIZONA. If they truly analyzed all the risks, this non-traditional market aspect HAD to be considered. If it wasn't, that's their own d*mn fault.

I would love to see Winnipeg or Quebec back. The CBA has solved a lot of the problems they faced when the franchises moved, Winnipeg has a new arena of its own, and I just think the sport should be migrating the opposite direction than it has been the last two decades- north.

Hell, move the team to Nunavut and call them the Eskimos for all I care, might still get better attendance anyway :wink: :lol: at least there will be ice!
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby Ruutu15 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:26 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:
If Glendale knew the risks when they signed their city over to the team, they also should have considered the fact that they are exactly that- Glendale. ARIZONA. If they truly analyzed all the risks, this non-traditional market aspect HAD to be considered. If it wasn't, that's their own d*mn fault.




You got my argument backwards. The Coyotes ownership signed a deal with Glendale. So you're saying that they should be able to sign a contract, a legally binding agreement, and then break it a mere 5 years later because "Glendale should have known better than to sign a contract with us!"?! Seriously? Because if so, I'm going to tell the bank they're f'ed on my loan repayment because they should have known better than to give me a loan. (Note: I'm actually good with my money, this is just to draw a comparison :lol: ) So let me take your argument and ask you the same questions. Shouldn't the Coyotes ownership have analyzed the risks before signing a decades-long lease in Glendale, AZ? Not only a lease, they got a brand new arena out of the deal. I really don't see how there's a counter to my argument.
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Re: Coyote soap opera...

Postby WaukeeBlues » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:02 pm

Ruutu15 wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
If Glendale knew the risks when they signed their city over to the team, they also should have considered the fact that they are exactly that- Glendale. ARIZONA. If they truly analyzed all the risks, this non-traditional market aspect HAD to be considered. If it wasn't, that's their own d*mn fault.




You got my argument backwards. The Coyotes ownership signed a deal with Glendale. So you're saying that they should be able to sign a contract, a legally binding agreement, and then break it a mere 5 years later because "Glendale should have known better than to sign a contract with us!"?! Seriously? Because if so, I'm going to tell the bank they're f'ed on my loan repayment because they should have known better than to give me a loan. (Note: I'm actually good with my money, this is just to draw a comparison :lol: ) So let me take your argument and ask you the same questions. Shouldn't the Coyotes ownership have analyzed the risks before signing a decades-long lease in Glendale, AZ? Not only a lease, they got a brand new arena out of the deal. I really don't see how there's a counter to my argument.


If that's the question- then YES!

And you're right, I misunderstood. So no, that question you got in quotes isn't what I'm trying to say.

I've gotta believe that somewhere in that contract is something to do with bankruptcy, change of owners, etc. I'm not saying that Glendale should be left holding the bill- if the team moves (I'm assuming they can do that without being sued), the city SHOULD be compensated. And if the owner has the bucks and can pay damages to move the team and wants to that badly, he might break the contract anyway and deal with it at court.

Its hindsight, but the point is that a team should have never been put there in the first place. Granted similar things have been said about Florida/Tampa/San Jose what have you but Arizona wasn't a stretch as utter stupidity. Oh well. It happened.
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