Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby cprice12 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:49 pm

not_a_wings_fan wrote:
keithp40 wrote:
not_a_wings_fan wrote: Let it go. You can still hope and root and cheer... but don't turn down plans because you are saving the date to watch the Blues' playoff run.

But by all means, drink as much koolaide as you want.



how quickly we forget!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

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I didn't forget anything. I remember how we stood pat at the deadline, kept a PoS coach, and really didn't do anything in the offseason because we were so in love with our record for the second half of the season.


I keep hearing this stuff from some people, and I'm sorry, but if you don't see the positives from a young team getting valuable playoff experience, then I don't know what to say.
First...Tkachuk was shopped but nobody was offering anything...so we kept him. So it's not like the Blues didn't see what they could get for some guys.

Second...I'm glad they made the playoffs last season. It was an exciting run, but more importantly the more playoff experience the young players can get early in their careers, the better.

Third...I got news for you. Murray wouldn't have been fired last offseason if we had missed the playoffs.
And actually, the playoff run last season ended up getting Murray fired because of how the team fell short of expectations this season. So I think you are really looking at last season's run the wrong way.
It was a good thing for numerous reasons.

I do agree that we should have done something in the offseason, but I don't think we had much cap room to work with.
With the contracts coming off of the books this offseason, we will have a lot of room to make some moves...assuming they don't resign Kariya and Mason. Which brings up a question...do you resign Kariya for less? How much less? Would you take him at $3.5 million? I think it depends on who else is available...but we'll see.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby Nyghtewynd » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:09 pm

I'm not sure I'd resign Kariya for $2M. He looks very played out.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby BoxCar » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:19 pm

Why does everyone feel that our defense is why we are losing games? Team defense and confidence has to do with the third period collapses, absolutely, but our defensemen are nowhere near as horrible as everyone is making them out to be. Especially Jackman. I've watched the games, I know that he gets beat often and that doesn't show on the stat sheet- but what does is +/- and TOI. This guy (along with Weaver) are putting up decent minutes and keeping the team afloat. Brewer has been showing some balls recently, but his play is frequently atrocious. His lack of offensive production that we were "promised" magnifies how poor his defensive ability is.

Jackman and Weaver are defensive defensemen, out there only to stop the other team from scoring. I don't expect many points out of them, but since Jackman gets stuck as the top d-man here since we have no real offensive D threat, he gets the blame along with Weaver for poor defenseman production. Blame Johnson if you have to, he should be an assist machine yet he isn't. Is that because he is bad? Not at all, it's because this team CAN'T SCORE!

The entire problem with this team is offense. We score 2.5 goals/game, good for the bottom 5 in the league. In order to win, then, we must allow at most 2 goals in a game. No room for a softie, no room for a defensive lapse, little room for odd-man rushes. Calgary is right below us yet more successful- but they have Kipprusoff and an incredibly talented defensive corps. The disappointing offense shouldn't come as a surprise, we have 2 forwards who consistently carry the puck confidently and make plays and 1 who is showing that he can in McDonald, Perron and Steen respectively. The rest are too quick to cycle or be rid of the puck to make the great play. With only 2 consistent playmakers on a given night, the players who thrive on those playmaker's abilities suffer (see Backes, David; Boyes, Brad; Tkachuk, Keith).

Kariya has been the biggest disappointment, Boyes a close second. I expected Backes' production to suffer and that is made so much worse when the other players can't help him out. We have players capable of finishing, playing solid defensive hockey and winning battles, but we desperately lack playmakers and control experts. Watching last night's game, you can see how valuable a player like Kane is.

This team is basically a collection of talented support players. Oshie, Backes, Perron, Berglund, Boyes and (increasingly) Steen are an amazing backbone to this team's future offense, but we need more than 1 McDonald to make this team formidable. One more consistent scorer with handling skills and one more offensive d-man (in addition to Junland) to replace Brewer.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby glen a richter » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:21 pm

the pool of UFA's seems awfully thin, aside from Kovy who's going to be extended by NJ anyway.

If they want to go swimming in the RFA pool, I'd consider Loui Eriksson, Alex Semin is RFA but I'd assume the Caps will re-sign him unless it becomes a cap issue which it could be because Backstrom is also RFA. How bad is Washingtons cap situation? There's no way they can afford to keep all that world class talent together, is there?

Apart from that, the best options are centers, and I don't know how much they'd want a center unless they move someone to wing.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:56 pm

Nyghtewynd wrote:I'm not sure I'd resign Kariya for $2M. He looks very played out.


:plusplus: Personally, he was a player I grew up idolizing and his play in the 03 Cup Finals was the stuff of legends. He is a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame and I'm excited that he wore the bluenote during his career.

But he's just spent. He's getting shoved around way too easily, he's not the lightning rod skater he used to be and obviously isn't scoring much anymore. The problem with re-signing him is where the heck do you put him? I personally don't think he's a top 6 forward anymore (2nd line at best) and if you put him on the 3rd or 4th line he's going to get killed. I seriously doubt he'll want to stay here anyway, if I were him I'd want another shot at a cup.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby goon attack » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:33 pm

glen a richter wrote:
goon attack wrote:That's pretty sound scientific method there, glen. Seems par for the course for science these days. :grin:


Oh Goon, perhaps you didn't notice the concurrent jabs at Blues ancient history and BobEssensaXperience in an effort to either bring humor, poorly, to the thread or to make everyone grateful for the fact that the team, in fact, doesn't play in Saskatoon.


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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby gaijin » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:40 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:
Nyghtewynd wrote:I'm not sure I'd resign Kariya for $2M. He looks very played out.


:plusplus: Personally, he was a player I grew up idolizing and his play in the 03 Cup Finals was the stuff of legends. He is a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame and I'm excited that he wore the bluenote during his career.

But he's just spent. He's getting shoved around way too easily, he's not the lightning rod skater he used to be and obviously isn't scoring much anymore. The problem with re-signing him is where the heck do you put him? I personally don't think he's a top 6 forward anymore (2nd line at best) and if you put him on the 3rd or 4th line he's going to get killed. I seriously doubt he'll want to stay here anyway, if I were him I'd want another shot at a cup.


Agreed. 5-10 years ago Kariya was one of my favorite players. But since he's been here, he seems like the player he was in Colorado, not the player he was in Anaheim or even Nashville. I think he would demand more salary than I think he could live up to at this point in his career. I think we should (sadly) part ways. Shop him at the deadline to a contender.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby philco_3 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:46 pm

gaijin wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
Nyghtewynd wrote:I'm not sure I'd resign Kariya for $2M. He looks very played out.


:plusplus: Personally, he was a player I grew up idolizing and his play in the 03 Cup Finals was the stuff of legends. He is a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame and I'm excited that he wore the bluenote during his career.

But he's just spent. He's getting shoved around way too easily, he's not the lightning rod skater he used to be and obviously isn't scoring much anymore. The problem with re-signing him is where the heck do you put him? I personally don't think he's a top 6 forward anymore (2nd line at best) and if you put him on the 3rd or 4th line he's going to get killed. I seriously doubt he'll want to stay here anyway, if I were him I'd want another shot at a cup.


Agreed. 5-10 years ago Kariya was one of my favorite players. But since he's been here, he seems like the player he was in Colorado, not the player he was in Anaheim or even Nashville. I think he would demand more salary than I think he could live up to at this point in his career. I think we should (sadly) part ways. Shop him at the deadline to a contender.


I never liked Kariya. He seems like a prick on and off the ice.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby keithp40 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:31 pm

philco_3 wrote:
gaijin wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
Nyghtewynd wrote:I'm not sure I'd resign Kariya for $2M. He looks very played out.


:plusplus: Personally, he was a player I grew up idolizing and his play in the 03 Cup Finals was the stuff of legends. He is a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame and I'm excited that he wore the bluenote during his career.

But he's just spent. He's getting shoved around way too easily, he's not the lightning rod skater he used to be and obviously isn't scoring much anymore. The problem with re-signing him is where the heck do you put him? I personally don't think he's a top 6 forward anymore (2nd line at best) and if you put him on the 3rd or 4th line he's going to get killed. I seriously doubt he'll want to stay here anyway, if I were him I'd want another shot at a cup.


Agreed. 5-10 years ago Kariya was one of my favorite players. But since he's been here, he seems like the player he was in Colorado, not the player he was in Anaheim or even Nashville. I think he would demand more salary than I think he could live up to at this point in his career. I think we should (sadly) part ways. Shop him at the deadline to a contender.


I never liked Kariya. He seems like a prick on and off the ice.


if he was scoring 30 goals right now i bet you wouldn't care how he was on or off the ice.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby philco_3 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:03 pm

keithp40 wrote:
philco_3 wrote:
gaijin wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
Nyghtewynd wrote:I'm not sure I'd resign Kariya for $2M. He looks very played out.


:plusplus: Personally, he was a player I grew up idolizing and his play in the 03 Cup Finals was the stuff of legends. He is a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame and I'm excited that he wore the bluenote during his career.

But he's just spent. He's getting shoved around way too easily, he's not the lightning rod skater he used to be and obviously isn't scoring much anymore. The problem with re-signing him is where the heck do you put him? I personally don't think he's a top 6 forward anymore (2nd line at best) and if you put him on the 3rd or 4th line he's going to get killed. I seriously doubt he'll want to stay here anyway, if I were him I'd want another shot at a cup.


Agreed. 5-10 years ago Kariya was one of my favorite players. But since he's been here, he seems like the player he was in Colorado, not the player he was in Anaheim or even Nashville. I think he would demand more salary than I think he could live up to at this point in his career. I think we should (sadly) part ways. Shop him at the deadline to a contender.


I never liked Kariya. He seems like a prick on and off the ice.


if he was scoring 30 goals right now i bet you wouldn't care how he was on or off the ice.


Nope. Even when they signed the little prick I never liked him and never will.

Just saying...
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:02 pm

philco_3 wrote:
keithp40 wrote:
philco_3 wrote:
gaijin wrote:
WaukeeBlues wrote:
Nyghtewynd wrote:I'm not sure I'd resign Kariya for $2M. He looks very played out.


:plusplus: Personally, he was a player I grew up idolizing and his play in the 03 Cup Finals was the stuff of legends. He is a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame and I'm excited that he wore the bluenote during his career.

But he's just spent. He's getting shoved around way too easily, he's not the lightning rod skater he used to be and obviously isn't scoring much anymore. The problem with re-signing him is where the heck do you put him? I personally don't think he's a top 6 forward anymore (2nd line at best) and if you put him on the 3rd or 4th line he's going to get killed. I seriously doubt he'll want to stay here anyway, if I were him I'd want another shot at a cup.


Agreed. 5-10 years ago Kariya was one of my favorite players. But since he's been here, he seems like the player he was in Colorado, not the player he was in Anaheim or even Nashville. I think he would demand more salary than I think he could live up to at this point in his career. I think we should (sadly) part ways. Shop him at the deadline to a contender.


I never liked Kariya. He seems like a prick on and off the ice.


if he was scoring 30 goals right now i bet you wouldn't care how he was on or off the ice.


Nope. Even when they signed the little prick I never liked him and never will.

Just saying...


You're mean.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby section319 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:41 pm

glen a richter wrote:the pool of UFA's seems awfully thin, aside from Kovy who's going to be extended by NJ anyway.

If they want to go swimming in the RFA pool, I'd consider Loui Eriksson, Alex Semin is RFA but I'd assume the Caps will re-sign him unless it becomes a cap issue which it could be because Backstrom is also RFA.



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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby Wulfen » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:30 pm

Mathematically we are still in it. Realistically we need to start evaluating the season for what it is, a another rebuilding year. If we can pull off another run and make the playoffs great but dont risk the future for another 1st round exit. I would rather ship out kariya, tkachuk, etc. and their playoff experience for some younger nhl ready forwards (no more draft picks that we will waste on more defensemen) than see us squeak in and get swept by Chicago or Vancouver.
And all this about signing RFAs will have to wait until we sign our own. We will have to give EJ a big salary he hasnt earned yet, same with Perron (although I can see him being a prick and go somewhere else if they offer 3 more dollars). Carlo, Steen and Weaver are all UFAs that need to be brought back. Mason is a UFA if we wanna bring him and his holey pads back. I would be willing to take a risk on Vesa Toskela in goal next year.
Just some thoughts. Go Blues, beat the Avs.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby keithp40 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Wulfen wrote:Mathematically we are still in it.


I have always been better at history than math...............hoping the history from last year will repeat itself....

go blues :letsgoblues:
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby tomcat16 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:27 pm

My hope is that we can trade Kariya, Tkachuk, Brewer and Coliacovo (since it appears he's on the block already) and pick up some serviceable picks and prospects that will help us down the road. Even if we do make the postseason, we are in no position to win it, although I believe we are getting closer. What we need more than anything is to get a real first line, not just a first line player, but a real first scoring line that is a threat. We do not currently have that. We also need another offensive defenseman to balance the attack.

my $0.02.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby philco_3 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:38 pm

WaukeeBlues wrote:You're mean.


That is what my employees tell me. :lol:
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby fargoblues » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:51 pm

tomcat16 wrote:My hope is that we can trade Kariya, Tkachuk, Brewer and Coliacovo (since it appears he's on the block already) and pick up some serviceable picks and prospects that will help us down the road. Even if we do make the postseason, we are in no position to win it, although I believe we are getting closer. What we need more than anything is to get a real first line, not just a first line player, but a real first scoring line that is a threat. We do not currently have that. We also need another offensive defenseman to balance the attack.

my $0.02.

Colaiacovo needs to stay. Period. The Blues have been better with him in the lineup.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby philco_3 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:04 pm

fargoblues wrote:
tomcat16 wrote:My hope is that we can trade Kariya, Tkachuk, Brewer and Coliacovo (since it appears he's on the block already) and pick up some serviceable picks and prospects that will help us down the road. Even if we do make the postseason, we are in no position to win it, although I believe we are getting closer. What we need more than anything is to get a real first line, not just a first line player, but a real first scoring line that is a threat. We do not currently have that. We also need another offensive defenseman to balance the attack.

my $0.02.

Colaiacovo needs to stay. Period. The Blues have been better with him in the lineup.

:plusplus: him and Steen need a contract.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:44 pm

It's highly unlikely that we are going to be able to trade any of the list of slugs people keep bringing up. Kariya, Walt, Brewer, etc... there are many reasons why another team would either (a) want nothing to do with them or (b) not give anything worth the deal to get them. I mean, maybe we hoodwink someone, but it's unlikely in the current economic climate.

The bigger deal would be to trade an oshie, backes, perron or someone on that level in a package for a better scorer. That's a hard deal to come up with as well. We just seem to have about 3-6 second line wingers and no top line guys. Maybe one of them will develope, and we can wait and see, but it's unlikely that all of them need to be here long term. Dealing them when they have more "potential" may net us more than waiting until two or three of them show that they have "peaked" as 20goal guys.

CURT: I was (and am) happy that they made the playoffs, but it will never go down as one of my greatest moments in Blues' history. I never said it was a bad thing, but I also scratch my head at people who think it will happen again like last year or that would prove anything about the team. Playoff experience is always good, but I would rather miss the playoffs and win a cup in two years than start another 25 year long aslo ran streak.
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Re: Now that it's clear we won't make the playoffs...

Postby section319 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:49 pm

philco_3 wrote:
fargoblues wrote:
tomcat16 wrote:My hope is that we can trade Kariya, Tkachuk, Brewer and Coliacovo (since it appears he's on the block already) and pick up some serviceable picks and prospects that will help us down the road. Even if we do make the postseason, we are in no position to win it, although I believe we are getting closer. What we need more than anything is to get a real first line, not just a first line player, but a real first scoring line that is a threat. We do not currently have that. We also need another offensive defenseman to balance the attack.

my $0.02.

Colaiacovo needs to stay. Period. The Blues have been better with him in the lineup.

:plusplus: him and Steen need a contract.


Strickland tweeted that the Blues have let other GM's know that Coliacovo is available, take it for what it is worth.
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