The Giant Pujols Debate

[DaDitka]

I LOVE Carp, but let someone else overpay him.

Not only do I think his best years are behind him, but as much as he's struggled with injuries throughout his career, it's certain to become a major problem with age.

Combine that with the complete loss of his fast ball and he'll be nice pitcher, but not a 10 mill + a year guy.

Hopefully he know that and stays here at a reasonable price, if not, thanks for everything.....there's the door.

[thedoc]

I heard on 101 that NY writers are trying to talk up the idea of Carp going to the Yankee's. I say we see what he can give us for the year then not pick up the option. Always the chance they might offer something as well.

[glen a richter]

The Yankees pitching is in such a shitstorm, and you know those dirtbags will do anything to stack their team.

I guarantee the return for Carp would be Montero and probably one of the pitching prospects, perhaps Manuel Banuelos. As an elitist New York prick privy to the ins and outs of Yankees baseball, that would be equivalent to highway robbery, and all because the fukking Yankees couldn't go one year not being competitive. Man-Ban will be a consistent 17 game winner on a good team and Montero has finally learned how to play defense plus his bat is good for 30/100 every season in a decent lineup.

And it's trades like that which are why I can't stand the Yankees anymore. I like Robby Cano and Phil Hughes and that's pretty much it. They'll trade their soul for a chance to beat the Red Sox, even if it means gutting the minors entirely.

[DaDitka]

The Yankees pitching is in such a shitstorm, and you know those dirtbags will do anything to stack their team.

I guarantee the return for Carp would be Montero and probably one of the pitching prospects, perhaps Manuel Banuelos. As an elitist New York prick privy to the ins and outs of Yankees baseball, that would be equivalent to highway robbery, and all because the fukking Yankees couldn't go one year not being competitive. Man-Ban will be a consistent 17 game winner on a good team and Montero has finally learned how to play defense plus his bat is good for 30/100 every season in a decent lineup.

And it's trades like that which are why I can't stand the Yankees anymore. I like Robby Cano and Phil Hughes and that's pretty much it. They'll trade their soul for a chance to beat the Red Sox, even if it means gutting the minors entirely.

So you're saying the Cards should do it????

I agree

[cardsfan04]

The Yankees pitching is in such a shitstorm, and you know those dirtbags will do anything to stack their team.

I guarantee the return for Carp would be Montero and probably one of the pitching prospects, perhaps Manuel Banuelos. As an elitist New York prick privy to the ins and outs of Yankees baseball, that would be equivalent to highway robbery, and all because the fukking Yankees couldn't go one year not being competitive. Man-Ban will be a consistent 17 game winner on a good team and Montero has finally learned how to play defense plus his bat is good for 30/100 every season in a decent lineup.

And it's trades like that which are why I can't stand the Yankees anymore. I like Robby Cano and Phil Hughes and that's pretty much it. They'll trade their soul for a chance to beat the Red Sox, even if it means gutting the minors entirely.

So you're saying the Cards should do it????

I agree

My first instinct is to let them overpay in talent for him in a heartbeat, but it obviously depends on the deal and how the season is going. It depends on how much they give and if we are contenders.

I don't really expect us to contend for a WS this year. We have a shot at the division because you never know who is going to step up, but we would be a longshot in the playoffs. If we're out of it at the trade deadline, and they overpay, take it in a heartbeat. Carpenter has been great for us, and I'd love for him to retire as a Cardinal. But, he turns 36 in April, and only has this year plus an option left on his contract. He would turn 38 in April of a new contract, so not having him at that point isn't devastating. And, if we aren't going to contend this year and won't contend next year without Pujols, I'd MUCH rather have an abundance of young talent.

Basically, Carpenter can't bring us a WS by himself, but young talent might be able to do it in the future. That being said, that's a long way off. We have no idea how this year is going to turn out. Losing Waino is huge, but maybe Garcia turns into an ~ace. Maybe Berkman plays like 2005 and Freese plays 150 games at the level he started last year. I'm not predicting these things, but there are some things that could make trading Carpenter a bad move.

[purple_haze]

if we trade pujols, i wonder how much we can get in return.

[DaDitka]

if we trade pujols, i wonder how much we can get in return.

Now? Not as much as you'd think. He's in a walk year and WILL HIT THE OPEN MARKET this offseason, so teams know he will be available. Often, teams will trade for a pending free agent so they aren't in danger of loosing a bidding war when he hits the open market. However, if there are going to be as few suiters for his services as the local media would have you believe, then why would teams overpay to acquire a guy you're going to have to overpay.

In theory, if you're going to commit that much payroll every year to Albert, you're going to have to have lots of young (cheap) home grown starters to fill out a competitive lineup. To my knowledge, the only team who has enough top level prospects to make that work is Cincinnati, and they have a pretty good first-baseman.

This is why I was such a proponent of dealing him BEFORE last year. The team acquiring him would have had a guaranteed two years of service and two years to work on getting an extension done.

I think the best the Birds could do is actually come out and make it know that he IS available, and see if you can't create a competitive market for his services. It may be a long shot, but are you really going to let the organizations biggest asset ever walk for nothing? It's not like their the St. Louis Blues.

[glen a richter]

Could end up in Washington.

[cardsfan04]

Pujols has said he won't accept a trade, and he has a full no-trade clause.

[glen a richter]

I wasn't suggesting he could be traded to Washington, I was suggesting he could go to Washington as a FA. They seem ready and willing to spend.

Now I have no idea if Bryce Harper will be anything he's cracked up to be, the kid is still a kid, for shitssake, and Strasburg may never pan out even though it's pretty well documented that guys who undergo Tommy John tend to come back very strong, and his getting it out of the way very early in his career could bode well. But I have a good feeling about the future of the Nationals. Winning baseball in DC is unheard of, but this could be it. They have a great young catcher in Wilson Ramos who will take on full time duties in 2012, Strasburg will be back, Zimmermann (the pitcher) will probably be a solid #2, Harper and Zimmerman (the 3rd baseman), Ramos and Werth will fill out the meat of a potentially very good lineup and they have a great young closer in Drew Storen. I can't imagine why Pujols, other than wanting to stay in St. Louis the rest of his career, would turn his nose up at the chance to be a part of something very big in DC. He would be part of a lineup that would mash the hell out of the ball, and I wouldn't put it past the team to win 100 in '12.

[DaDitka]

I heard a lot of speculation that Washington will be one of the top suiters for him. They had a 'panel' type discussion in MLB network that concluded they were the odds on favorites.

Of course it's all speculation at this point, but it does dispute the local talking heads that they and say there wonk be a market for him and he'll resign here.