TLR Calls it Quits!!

[DaDitka]

Tony announcing his retirement right now!

[dmiles2186]

I will admit, I'm sad to see him go. I wavered on TLR up until '06. And what he did with that team that year (not to mention getting 105 wins out of an injured roster the year before), I was forever a TLR guy after that. My dad and I had a lengthy conversation about La Russa on our way to the Rams game/Cards parade yesterday. We've both said over and over that Cards fans are spoiled because since La Russa was hired, they've been one of the best teams in baseball. I've always said that I don't think people will realize what we had in La Russa until he was gone, and now we're about to find out.

It's all in the numbers. 16 years. 7 trips to the NLCS. 3 trips to the World Series. 2 World Series titles. Has the most wins for a manager in Cardinals history. 3rd all time in wins. The only manager Albert Pujols has ever known. And in my opinion, he made the Cardinals managerial job one of the top destinations in baseball again after those rough years in the late 80's and early 90's (even with Torre at the helm for a few of them).

Amazing run.

And now...here's to hoping Joe Maddon is the manager of your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals.

[cardsfan04]

I'm somewhat surprised, but it does make sense to retire now as opposed to 1-2 years from now. He won't duplicate this season even if he were to win another title (and w/ Waino coming back, I actually think we have a decent chance at repeating, although not predicting it per se).

I want Oquendo to be the new guy. I'd be fine with Maddon too, but Oquendo is my top choice.

[glen a richter]

Yeahhhhhh, the Rays are definitely planning to let Maddon go.

[DaDitka]

I'm somewhat surprised, but it does make sense to retire now as opposed to 1-2 years from now. He won't duplicate this season even if he were to win another title (and w/ Waino coming back, I actually think we have a decent chance at repeating, although not predicting it per se).

Well he did say he made his decision a long time ago, long before the team even made the playoffs.

[dmiles2186]

Yeahhhhhh, the Rays are definitely planning to let Maddon go.

Yeahhh....doesn't mean Maddon doesn't want to go to the Cardinals. I know he's got 1 year left on his contract, but it's not unprecedented for a manager/coach to be hired away while still under contract. Possibly some compensation could be worked out or something along those lines (i.e. Gruden to the Bucs). I didn't say it would happen, I said that is who I want to manage the Cards.

Dewitt said at the presser today that they are going to hire a first rate manager. Maddon is a first rate manager.

[cardsfan04]

Yeahhhhhh, the Rays are definitely planning to let Maddon go.

That's certainly an obstacle, but if the Cards decide they want him and Maddon decides he wants to come to the Cards(and I heard he grew up a Cards fan), I don't think it's a big longshot. There are 3 people in management who left their teams for other teams in the past month or so alone (Epstein, Guillen, and Hoyer). Given, Maddon likely hasn't worn out his welcome as much as the others (especially Guillen). But, I think it's plausible.

That being said, it's likely the Cards could find a comparable manager (Francona for one) that could come without compensation.

[Leedog]

They will hire Oquendo to make A. Pujol happy. He only likes Latino's.

[DaDitka]

They will hire Oquendo to make A. Pujol happy. He only likes Latino's.

F - That!!!!!

I don't think that will happen. Tony even mentioned in his presser how he felt somewhat 'unwanted' by management (Mo) and we all know Mo has long wanted to blow up the island boys rule in the locker room. That said, something clearly changed down the stretch in the locker room, the players credit it to Dotel, and I would be careful not to disrupt that. But there is no way they give the gig to Oquendo. Mo wants to be the one running this organization. Not the manager, and certainly not Albert and Molina which would be the case if you promoted the buddy.

There is more to this team then just them two, make the best decision for the organization as a whole.

[cardsfan04]

Why do you say that Mo has always wanted to breakup the "island boys rule" in the locker room?

And why do you dislike the idea of Oquendo being manager?

[DaDitka]

Why do you say that Mo has always wanted to breakup the "island boys rule" in the locker room?

And why do you dislike the idea of Oquendo being manager?

As for the 'island boys rule', that's been quite the talk for two years now...it's nothing new or secretive. All the beat writers and insiders have discussed this to exhaustion. There is a different set of rules for them and it had long been a divided locker room. Again, obviously I think something changed that down the stretch, but it would be irresponsible to believe that would become the norm unless you can substantiate the cause.

I don;' like Oquendo because I think he's too big of 'buddies' with some of the guys....which is quite evident with all the articles last night and this morning. A coach has to be more objective then that. IMO even Tony got a little soft on Albert and Yadi at times and Oquendo would be even worse. Hell, Albert dosen't listen to him at third so what makes you think he'd respect him on the bench?

Besides, I think it's clearly a mute point. If they wanted someone from the inside they would have already announced it. They have know for three months that Tony was leaving and they have had more then ample time to examine internal options. Part of the reason Tony is leaving is that they Mo wanted to shake things up. Yes, winning the WS will make it tougher for Mo to radically change the direction of the organization, but in theory the hire you make at manager should last longer then any contract you would give Albert so therefor it's more important and one should not influence the other.

[cardsfan04]

I'll grant you that there's a bit of a Latino clique in the locker room, and Oquendo is very much part of it. He and Pujols are essentially best friends. However, I've never heard anything negative about it. The club house was apparently very very good this year even before Dotel arrived.

I don't know how their relationship would work as manager-player vs coach-player, but I'm not very worried about it. The fact he runs through stop signs at third base couldn't be any less relevant to how he listens to Oquendo in other situations. Besides I can't imagine Pujols is "told" to do many things on the bench or in the clubhouse. He's clearly earned the right to be trusted to do his thing w/o being micro-managed, regardless of who the manager is.

Also, when Oquendo coached the Puerto Rican team, he left Piniero off the roster, despite Piniero being part of the "island boys." Not exactly the same, but it's a sign that he can separate friendship from managing.

I don't think it's a moot point though. They clearly want to interview people outside the organization. But, that doesn't mean they have ruled out internal candidates.

[DaDitka]

I don't think it's a moot point though. They clearly want to interview people outside the organization. But, that doesn't mean they have ruled out internal candidates.

You could be right, that's just the impression that I get from the situation.

[cardsfan04]

I should mention that I'm biased because my dad and Oquendo are ~friends (although don't have occasion to talk much anymore).

[cprice12]

Why would any Cardinal fan care if there are separate rules for some players, or if there is favoritism as long as they are winning?

There are a bunch of teams who have won championships in all sports that didn't have great clubhouses, or had internal spats, or had some guys on the team flat out hate each other.

Everyone getting along in the clubhouse and everyone playing by the same rules has NEVER been required to win championships or for a team to be successful.

With that said...
I think any clubhouse issues with the Cardinals are way overblown. After winning the WS, the players have been constantly talking about how great a group of guys are on this team and how great the clubhouse is. They volunteer this info. They aren't directly asked about it...but they bring it up. That says a lot and pretty much discredits any issues depicted by Slaten or any other member of the media (not that Slaten is a member of the media, but still).

Any "clubhouse issue" or "favoritism" or "island group" is a complete non-issue if you ask me.

Players wanted to play here under LaRussa...well, except for Rasmus...thank God.
The fact that players want to play here says it all. If the environment was so segmented and so unfair, players wouldn't want to play here when they can make just as good of money, if not more, elsewhere.

[DaDitka]

With that said...
I think any clubhouse issues with the Cardinals are way overblown. After winning the WS, the players have been constantly talking about how great a group of guys are on this team and how great the clubhouse is. They volunteer this info. They aren't directly asked about it...but they bring it up. That says a lot and pretty much discredits any issues depicted by Slaten or any other member of the media (not that Slaten is a member of the media, but still).

Any "clubhouse issue" or "favoritism" or "island group" is a complete non-issue if you ask me.

I'll admit that I'm not BB expert anyways. It's tied for fourth for my level of interest with NASCAR behind Hockey, Football, and Poker.

I just know that all we've heard for years since 06 was about the locker room. I haven't been there, so I don't know, but what I do know it that after Dotel joined that locker room the team changed. There was clear - visual evidence of that. Can that be sustained moving forward? How do I know?

The only reason I said it was an issue and the I didn't expect anyone inside to get the job is that many around the team have always stated that Tony and Mo didn't exactly have the same idealism and thus I would expect Mo to try and put his stamp on the team now.

Personally, I could care less what they do. When they are entertaining.....I watch. When they are not....I do something else.

I think I can some up my stance quite easily...my favorite Cardinal ever.....still....and for ever is Big Mac. He was entertaining. I have no emotional attachment to the team what so ever. A bad Blues game can ruin my nigh and Bears loss can ruin multiple days.....a Cards loss? so what.

[cardsfan04]

I'm starting to doubt that Oquendo gets the job. He didn't even go to the parade. Not that the decision of our next manager should hinge on that, but it's a microcosm of what to expect w/ Jose. He hates public outings and that was a pretty big one to miss. It could mean he knows he's not getting the job and is done with the team. Or, it could just give the team a reason to pass on him.

Then again, maybe he just had the flu or something.

[cprice12]

I'm starting to doubt that Oquendo gets the job. He didn't even go to the parade. Not that the decision of our next manager should hinge on that, but it's a microcosm of what to expect w/ Jose. He hates public outings and that was a pretty big one to miss. It could mean he knows he's not getting the job and is done with the team. Or, it could just give the team a reason to pass on him.

Then again, maybe he just had the flu or something.

I don't think Oquendo will get the job because the team wants a guy with big league manager experience.
I don't think the Cardinals are looking for a rookie coach.

I think they'll really try to get Maddon...and if they can't, they'll try to get Francona.

I'd be very happy with either one...but would prefer Maddon.