Rams Stadium Negotiations

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Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:50 am

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... 0f31a.html

I hadn't seen a lot of these pictures, but the CVC's proposal kinda floored me. They have some really good idea. Obviously, the Rams will probably not accept the initial proposal, but it's all part of the negotiation. At least we know the CVC came to play. There are going to be up's and down's with this thing, as there already had been. But the natural light is a big seller for me, as is the plaza.

I've always thought the EJD wasn't as bad as everyone believes it to be. Yes, it looks like they're in a warehouse on TV, but I went to the EJD for the first time in four years and I was pretty surprised by the upgrades they had made in that time. Much better than when I went in '07.

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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby thedoc » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:46 am

You have to admit that they are making a big effort and showing that they are here to play ball. I just think it all depends on what Stan wants to do.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby cardsfan04 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:27 am

I was pleased with the CVC's proposal as well. I don't think that will be enough, but hopefully it's a good enough starting place to keep the team here.

I don't know many details about moving to LA, but I've heard it will likely be more profitable for him there. So, until he has actually signed something to stay in St. Louis, I have to think he's going to make the more profitable decision. And, even though I want the team in STL, I can't really hold that against him.

The one thing about moving to LA that I've heard that keeps me slightly optimistic about the team staying here is that he would have to relinquish some of his ownership to get the land to build a new stadium. If that can't be worked around, I could see that being a sticking point.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:42 pm

I agree with you that Stan is a businessman, but it doesn't mean he can't turn the Rams into a lucrative franchise. I think (and I have nothing to go off of on this) that Stan will try to get as much as he can here in St. Louis before he even entertains the idea of moving the team. He was part of the reason the team came to St. Louis originally if I'm not mistaken. There are reasons for him to stay and the NFL doesn't want franchises moving around.

The LA market is much larger than St. Louis, of course, but the LA fans are a bit more fickle than St. Louis. If you aren't winning, you aren't drawing. Yes, Rams attendance in down, but there is a large fanbase here, but it's hard when your team sucks as bad as it has. Kroenke has to understand that. If Kroenke shows his commitment to winning along with invigorating this franchise by committing to St. Louis, the fans will come back I feel.

Right now, I think most fans are leery and feel like the Rams have one foot in and one foot out of St. Louis (and rightfully so). If Kroenke can get what he wants, I think he'll stay regardless of how much money is sitting in LA. Kroenke has stated that it's his desire to make the EJD an entertainment venue, not just a football stadium. He wants to host large events, Final Fours, big concerts, etc. He doesn't like losing out to KC and Indy for those things. This is a good start from the CVC.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby DaDitka » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:32 pm

I don't think Stan's silence means anything about intentions.....this dude has the best poker face in the world......

I just think the NFL is not long for St. Louis. No real fans and no where near enough corporate support.

Even if they built him a new stadium like the one in Indy......I'm not sure they could fill all the suits and advertisements spaces anyways.

Everything works against them. A crappy downtown experience, a bad dome, crappy fans, no parking, no corporate support..... EVERYTHING.

Stan is a very smart man....and that is why he will have a lot of trouble rationalizing staying in St. Louis (at least long term)
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:07 am

I disagree with you on the fans. There isn't the same passion for the Rams that you find for the Packers or Steelers or <insert other teams I'm not thinking of here>. But, I think there's a real fan base here. I don't go to games hardly ever, but I always watch them start to finish on TV. And, most of my friends do the same.

They are 56-104 in the last decade. That's an average of less than 6 wins per season. I think any city (outside of the few that just bleed for their team like Green Bay, etc.) would struggle to draw much support. And, LA certainly isn't going to fix that problem. LA would have more corporate support though.

I don't think it's a done deal, but it's still going to be a bit of a challenge to keep the team here.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby DaDitka » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:10 am

cardsfan04 wrote: I don't go to games hardly ever, but I always watch them start to finish on TV. And, most of my friends do the same.



Thank you for making my point!
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:57 am

DaDitka wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote: I don't go to games hardly ever, but I always watch them start to finish on TV. And, most of my friends do the same.



Thank you for making my point!


That's such an incredibly small sample size to prove anything.

My point is that it's not that people don't care about the team in St. Louis which is what I took your point to be.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby DaDitka » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:03 am

cardsfan04 wrote:
DaDitka wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote: I don't go to games hardly ever, but I always watch them start to finish on TV. And, most of my friends do the same.



Thank you for making my point!


That's such an incredibly small sample size to prove anything.

My point is that it's not that people don't care about the team in St. Louis which is what I took your point to be.



The Rams simply do not get the required fan support. Id doesn't matter if you're talking game day attendance, season ticket sales, training camp attendence, pre and post game ratings.

They are not the worst, but they are among the lowest in the league. Combine that with the dire corporate sponsorship situation and it's easy to make an argument that the team simply isn't viable.

I don;t mean to bad mouth St. Louis sports fans. I think many die-hard fans simply adopted new teams when the Cards left and today's younger fans are football/fantasy fans much more then fans of a certain team.....sure they may wear a Rams jersey when they watch at home....but their is little other support for the organization.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:12 am

DaDitka wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote:
DaDitka wrote:
cardsfan04 wrote: I don't go to games hardly ever, but I always watch them start to finish on TV. And, most of my friends do the same.



Thank you for making my point!


That's such an incredibly small sample size to prove anything.

My point is that it's not that people don't care about the team in St. Louis which is what I took your point to be.



The Rams simply do not get the required fan support. Id doesn't matter if you're talking game day attendance, season ticket sales, training camp attendence, pre and post game ratings.

They are not the worst, but they are among the lowest in the league. Combine that with the dire corporate sponsorship situation and it's easy to make an argument that the team simply isn't viable.

I don;t mean to bad mouth St. Louis sports fans. I think many die-hard fans simply adopted new teams when the Cards left and today's younger fans are football/fantasy fans much more then fans of a certain team.....sure they may wear a Rams jersey when they watch at home....but their is little other support for the organization.


I mean, you're right. Rams are 3rd to the Blues/Cards for me and many others. And, if we factor in Mizzou sports, they might drop even further.

But, I think the lack of fan support isn't because of St. Louis. I think it's because the Rams have sucked as a franchise. If they were elsewhere, I don't think it would be very different. I mean, there would be the initial boost of fans when they initially move, but I think many cities (especially LA) would struggle to continue showing up supporting the team after a decade of irrelevance (or 2 decades of irrelevance if you take away a ~3 year run).
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby DaDitka » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:48 am

cardsfan04 wrote:But, I think the lack of fan support isn't because of St. Louis. I think it's because the Rams have sucked as a franchise. If they were elsewhere, I don't think it would be very different. I mean, there would be the initial boost of fans when they initially move, but I think many cities (especially LA) would struggle to continue showing up supporting the team after a decade of irrelevance (or 2 decades of irrelevance if you take away a ~3 year run).



I agree ....somewhat. You are right about LA, but there are many markets in the league that support their teams even in bad times. The Rams won a Superbowl 12 years ago..how many franchises can say that? My point is that the Rams have bandwagon fans...not die hard fans. There are teams like Cleveland, Chicago, Washington, and Green Bay that sell out every game, every year, not matter what.

Furthermore, 'it's not St. Louis fans' can not be more incorrect. You sight 'success' yet the Blues are doing better and their ticket sales are down and the Cards won the series but had their lowest attendance in the new stadium and failed to sell out two playoff games.

The St. Louis sports fan base is simply spending less money on tickets period. No matter what sport. And when you are third or fourth down the food chain the way the Rams are.....it's even more significant.

All that said, (regular) fan attendance is one of the least significant sources of revenue for NFL franchises. Even if the NFL knew they wouldn't sell a single ticket to average Joe fan in LA. As long as they get the TV market and sold the luxury boxes and such...they wouldn't think twice about putting a team back there.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:35 am

All good points being made here. I'm with cardsfan--the Rams epic suckage is what's hurting them right now. I'm 26 years old and I live in Central Illinois. Where I live there's a cross of Colts, Bears and Rams fans, but the Rams are WAY outnumbered, even though we're 2 hours East of St. Lou, 2 hours west of Indy, and 4 hours south of Chicago.

The Bears have generations of fans because they've been around so long. The Colts moved to Indy in the 80's and were on pretty shaky terms themselves until Peyton Manning came along. Now they get great support even though they were the worst team in the league this year. Now, check back in 6 years if they are without Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck bombs, and they average 2-4 wins a season.

It's hard to forget that the Rams have only been here for 16 years. They don't have the roots that the Cardinals and the Blues do. Ditka brings up a good point, St. Louis fans are spending less money on sports, regardless of how good the teams are.

But at the same time, they haven't had the time to lay a foundation for future generations of fans. They moved to St. Louis when I was 9, I haven't had any kids yet (though I've got one on the way). So in my family, it's been me and my Dad watching the Rams for 16-17 years. The point I'm trying to make is that in terms of a sports franchise, the St. Louis version of the Rams is still a baby. They had such success for a 3 year period, but weren't able to sustain that like the Colts were for 10 years.

I think the Colts made themselves fans for life for the run of dominance they had, whereas the Rams were so poorly managed that it could have turned some potential fans off or at least made them turn away until they righted the ship.

Where I'm going with this is that the Rams haven't established a solid footprint. That's Stan Kroenke's task is to make this a must-see product. If he can turn the EJD into an entertainment center and field a good football team, the Rams can become a moneymaker.

After all, the Packers were on some shaky ground until the 60's. After that run, they became an institution.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby thedoc » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:38 pm

dmiles2186 wrote: I haven't had any kids yet (though I've got one on the way). .


That you claim.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:49 pm

thedoc wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote: I haven't had any kids yet (though I've got one on the way). .


That you claim.


What do you take me for? An NBA player? :mrgreen:
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue May 15, 2012 8:27 am

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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue May 15, 2012 8:32 am

I don't live in St. Louis, so I won't be footing the bill, but man, the Rams have a killer plan. It's either shell out the 500-700 million for this or you'd be looking at either no team/big events (Super Bowl/Final Four, etc) or a 1 billion plus new facility.

The two plans so far:

CVC PLAN

Highlights:

• New, 96-foot-wide video screen and scoreboard.

• Three-story pavilion connected to Dome, with beer garden and special entrance for club seats/luxury suites.

• Large glazed window panels to allow natural light.

• 1,500 new club seats.

• New plaza to replace outdoor smoking area.

• Retractable traffic barriers on Broadway to control vehicle flow.

Cost estimate: $124 million

Status: Rejected by Rams.

RAMS PLAN

Highlights:

• New, partially retractable roof. An angled portion slides to allow more daylight.

• Demolish east side of the building. Shift the field 51 feet to the east.

• New glass curtain for new east facade. Larger concourses and enhanced seating, lobbies and entrances in new section.

• Significant changes and additions to seating throughout the Dome.

• Add two "party platforms," close to the end zones, for additional, temporary seating.

• Reroute a portion of Broadway to the current location of Fourth Street.

Cost estimate: None provided.

Status: CVC has until June 1 to accept or reject.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... z1uwtGmash
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby DaDitka » Tue May 15, 2012 9:49 am

I love the new Rams plans....but the two years of the dome being out of use for conventions and fooball games may very well prove to be too great of a hurdle.

Based on other recent stadium deals, the Rams would be on the hook for between 45 - 50% of the 700 mill, the problem is the expected 500 mill in lost revenue during construction.
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Re: Rams Stadium Negotiations

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:04 am

I'm more confident today that they are going to make this happen than I was before. But, there's no way it will be that 700 mil plan. They'll find somewhere in the middle to meet. The Rams plan though, wow, that would be awesome.
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