Offseason Thread

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Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:56 pm

Thought about posting this in the WS thread, but I don't want to read a thread about us losing the WS all offseason.

We have some interesting decisions to make.

2B: Is Wong ready? Or, rather, is he close enough to ready that we can try to make him our 2B? He hasn't looked good so far, but he has had a slow start at each level. I'm tempted to let him have his learning curve in April, playing ~everyday and hope for the best.
3B: That would push mCarp to 3rd and Freese out of town probably.
SS: I don't know what the answer here is, but it is not internal. Drew is OK, but is going to get too much money for somebody that can't hit. Peralta and Escobar are the other 2 notable FA's, but neither jump off the page as obvious solutions. Not sure who is available via trade.
RF: I'd love to have Beltran back, but I could see him ending up elsewhere. That leaves Craig/Taveras (which isn't a bad plan B).
1B: If Craig goes to RF, that makes Adams an everyday starter. Not the worst option ever either.
CF: I would put this as our 3rd need (behind SS/3B, albeit w/ 3B possibly being solved by mCarp). But, if you take Freese/Kozma's bats out of the lineup, we can live with Jay's streakiness a little easier. I wonder if Taveras can play CF. He projects as a corner OF, but he's played CF in the minors.

Rotation:
Wacha, Waino, Miller are locks. That leaves 2 spots for Lynn, Kelly, Rosenthal, Martinez, Garcia. If healthy, Garcia will take one of those. But, I'd love to see Rosenthal/Martinez get a chance to compete for a spot. If they move to the rotation, that weakens our bullpen, but can you imagine those 2 as our 4 and 5?
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:44 am

I really hope Kelly is in our rotation next year. He deserves it. He finally got his chance at the role for an extended period this year and did a really god job. I would love to see Martinez in our rotation and I think Rosenthal has to be the closer. He's just too good there not to hold down that spot. If we can, I want to see us trade Lance Lynn, especially if Garcia comes back.

This is a typical message board trade idea, but I would love to see if someone out there would take a package with Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. I know it's just easy thinking that we can package two of our 'problem' guys for an upgrade, but that's what I hope will happen.

It's going to be interesting how the offseason plays out. As you mentioned, there are several options as to what might happen, which is nice flexibility to have.

Another possibility, and I don't know how realistic it is, but that's to re-sign Beltran, move him to CF, put Craig in right, trade Jay, and have Taveres as a bench guy/4th OF that rotates in the lineup every few days. Beltran's defense isn't what it once was, so having an OF w/ Holliday, Beltran, and Craig could be scary defensively, but I pose that idea mostly as a way to get Taveres slowly worked into the fold instead of just throwing him right into 500+ AB and a prime spot in the lineup.

But, to contradict myself, if he's as good as they say he is, that shouldn't matter. I'm just kind of talking in circles here, but it's probably going to be one of our more interesting offseasons in the past 6-7 years because there are so many possibilities.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:42 pm

I've heard rumors that we are interested in Starlin Castro. Mixed feelings (underachieving, has big contract), but he would be an upgrade over Kozma for sure. I have a hard time imagining the Cubs giving us a well-hyped young prospect though.

I'd like to see Kelly get a chance to compete for a rotation spot next year, but I don't think he's one of our 5 best options. That's not an indictment on Kelly because he's a really solid back of the rotation guy (although I think he overachieved slightly). I just think we are loaded with SP talent.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:43 pm

ESPN just did their writeup of the Cards offseason needs. Hard to take it too seriously given that they gave non-joking consideration to Carpenter being in the rotation next year. But, they had 2 interesting ideas.

1. Trade for Max Scherzer. Interesting idea. Local guy, probably going to win the CYA this year. But, he's had 1 great year after a number of merely decent years and it came when his BABIP was lower than normal (suggesting some luck). I think we'd have to pay way too much to hope he keeps that up, especially when we have so many young SP prospects hitting the majors now.

2. SIgn Ellsbury. My first reaction was that it was ridiculous. But, Jay is a bit of a hole in the lineup offensively. If Beltran leaves (which is likely), this would replace him and allow Craig/Taveras to split time in RF. It also would lessen the impact of probably having a bad SS again next year (weak 7-8 is better than weak 6-7-8 in lineup).
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:51 am

My brain says, 'DON'T SIGN ELLSBURY!' He's 30, he'll want a long deal, and we've seen in the past how those rarely work (Crawford, Gonzalez, Pujols, Hamilton, Mike Hampton, Kevin Brown, etc. etc. etc.). But my heart says, 'SIGN HIM!' I want to see a guy at the top of the order who can swipe bags with the best of them for at least a few more years. The Cardinals haven't had someone like that in a long, long time. And I'm slowly starting to give up on the Jon Jay era.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby glen a richter » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:58 am

Just what the Cards need in Ellsbury--another guy who's only good when he's juicing.

Yes, I said that solely to rile y'all up.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:50 pm

glen a richter wrote:Just what the Cards need in Ellsbury--another guy who's only good when he's juicing.

Yes, I said that solely to rile y'all up.


Ahhh...every team had juicers. Cards did have quite a few and I was never attached to any of them, save for McGwire, but I've disowned him for his baseball feats in St. Lou so we're over that. :D

So, stupid question...Ellsbury was caught juicing? I don't remember this.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:59 am

Rosenthal is remaining the closer.
I believe I read that Martinez will move to the rotation (or maybe just compete for a spot, dunno).
Carp might be back in a non-playing role.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:47 am

No shocker here, but Beltran is almost certainly gone. He is expecting a 3-4 year deal. No chance Cards give it to him.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:07 pm

Nope, and I can't blame him or the Birds. This is his last big contract, so he's going to want to get one for as long as he can. The Cards have better options and won't have room for him down the line. I did read that Boston may be one of his suitors. That caught me off guard. Maybe that's a name that's come up several times already but I had just assumed he and the Yanks were going to be a pair.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:25 pm

Apparently we're discussing Tulo with the Rockies. It could just be due diligence. But, it sounds like there could be something to this. I've been rather opposed to trading for him the past few years (health issues, prospect costs, contract). But, depending on cost I'd kinda like to see it happen.

I've heard Miller + Adams + a prospect. Depending on the prospect, I would do that deal in a heartbeat. We can get by w/o Adams (Craig + Taveras for 1B/RF). We have an abundance of SPs, so Miller is expendable. And, we have lots of prospects in the system that I have a hard time finding one that makes this deal undoable at that price.

Who knows if that's really the price, but can you imagine a lineup of

mCarp
Jay
Holliday
Craig
Tulo
Taveras
Yadi
Freese
Pitcher

That would be insanely good. I think we would be instant WS favorites if we did the deal at a good price.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:05 pm

That lineup would be unbelievable. Heard Passan (of Yahoo!, the author of the Tulo article) on STL radio this morning say that the reason he feels this is a legit rumor is that Mo feels the organization can continue to develop prospects/players to fill the void left if they trade away Miller and Adams. There was also another source who said that DeWitt would have no problem footing the bill of Tulo's deal.

Sidenote: When did Miller get put on the outs? He was the jewel of the farm system and now he's a pariah it seems. Is it Wacha? Did Miller do something behind closed doors?

Also, I heard the Cards were checking into Elvis Andrus too. He's younger but also had an out in his contract after 4 years.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:00 am

I don't know about Miller. It's kinda strange how he's gone from our future ace to a good trade piece so quickly. I suspect he was on an innings limit similar to Strasburg, but the Cardinals didn't tell anybody, and that's why he didn't hardly pitch in the playoffs.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:40 am

What an awful trade offer from the O's. But I can't blame them for trying.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/c ... iller.html

The Orioles and Cardinals had trade talks revolving around Shelby Miller and J.J. Hardy, but the Cardinals told Baltimore there's no deal to be made, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. Some have speculated that the Cards could consider trading Miller this winter despite his brilliant rookie season. However, there was no indication that St. Louis is thinking that way in this exchange.

Hardy is coming off of a season in which he hit .263/.306/.433 while belting 25 home runs. Of course, the Cardinals are aggressively pursuing an upgrade at the shortstop position, but this deal wasn't up their alley.

While the Cardinals believe in keeping an open mind to all opportunities, many at the GM Meetings are wondering why they would even think about trading the right-hander, Heyman writes. The Cards have recieved many inquiries about their wealth of young pitchers over the last couple of days.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:56 am

Yeah, I bet that took all of 3 seconds to turn down. Hardy is solid defensively, but only won the silver slugger because he hit 25 HRs. I mean, that's really good for a SS, but his slash line is merely adequate. .306 OBP is very uninspiring. If he was a .350 OBP guy and a couple of years young, I probably would be interested.

I know it's probably a longshot, but I'm still holding out hope for Tulo. Just depends on how much they want though. I heard Miller/Adams/Jenkins mentioned at first, and I would do that in a heartbeat. Now I'm hearing they want Rosenthal as well. I think that's too much.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:23 am

cardsfan04 wrote:Yeah, I bet that took all of 3 seconds to turn down. Hardy is solid defensively, but only won the silver slugger because he hit 25 HRs. I mean, that's really good for a SS, but his slash line is merely adequate. .306 OBP is very uninspiring. If he was a .350 OBP guy and a couple of years young, I probably would be interested.

I know it's probably a longshot, but I'm still holding out hope for Tulo. Just depends on how much they want though. I heard Miller/Adams/Jenkins mentioned at first, and I would do that in a heartbeat. Now I'm hearing they want Rosenthal as well. I think that's too much.


Yeah, Rosenthal is where I draw the line. I still hate to give up on Miller, because I think his ceiling is insanely high. I mean, he won 15 games as a rookie. But if the trade off is one of the top 5 SS in the league? I think you have to take that deal.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:52 pm

Sounds like Tulo was just a pipedream afterall. Oh well.

Peralta wants much more than 3/45. No thank you to anything close to that much less much more than it.

I guess Profar is my hope now, but he'll be super expensive too. And. the Rangers have a history of over-hyping prospects that they plan to trade. Hopefully Profar's actual value is close to the hype.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:48 am

Figured I'd post this in here since I'm not sure a thread will get too many posts.

Fare thee well, Chris Carpenter. Dude was the most clutch pitcher I've had the privilege to watch. Game 5 against the Phillies. Game 7 against the Rangers. The Wild Card clincher against the Astros. Game 3 (if I recall) of the '06 World Series. Plenty of other playoff games I'm forgetting. The guy had part of a rib removed to pitch for us, for God's sakes. Dude is forever going to be a Cardinal.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby cardsfan04 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:47 pm

Yeah, I love Carp. Sucks he's done. I know retired numbers is only for HOF'rs and he won't make the HOF. But, I wouldn't hate if he had his number retired anyway. I'm sure he'll be in the Cardinal HOF when it opens next year.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Postby dmiles2186 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:55 pm

I love this deal.

Edit: I realize the Cardinals misspelled Bourjos' name.

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