Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:52 pm

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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby flyingnote38 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:31 pm

So the conditional pick may not be so bad after all. Allegedly if the Blues re-sign Miller or make it to the conference finals, Buffalo gets our #1 this year but we get back Minnesota's #2 this year and Buffalo's #3.

If that's the case, it takes some of the sting out of the deal.

But I still think what they needed was a scoring line center, not a checking line center.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:57 pm


:facepalm:

Which article were you referring to?
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby cprice12 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:51 am

I don't get those who don't like this trade for the Blues. Anything short of describing this trade as a Home Run, is selling it short.
This is a fantastic trade...no matter what the guys at stlouisgametime.com are saying.

The only thing Halak had going for him over Miller was that he was younger.
Miller is just flat out better than Halak in pretty much every aspect of the game.
Some like to point out that Halak and Miller's numbers were very similar, but just comparing numbers is a horrible way to compare two goalies on teams at opposite ends of the standings. Miller was on a God-awful team. Halak was on a serious cup contender. You can't compare save% or GAA. You have to look at their history and watch how they play. If you watch Miller and Halak play, and tell me that they are about the same, you are a liar.

Army was being nice by saying Miller was only 5% better than Halak. What's he going to say to the press? That Halak sucks? He's going to be polite about it. Why piss off and publicly rip Halak?

And let's talk about stick handling... Halak was pretty bad at handling the puck. Miller is pretty darn good at it. It always really bothered me how bad Halak was with the puck...and not just with his stick, he had a poor glove hand as well.
Halak was good. Hell, very good at times...I wanted to like him so bad. But I was never 100% confident in him. He always made me nervous because he could be inconsistent...more so than most top goalies.
And don't get me started on Halak's inability to stay healthy. He hasn't been here when we needed him. We got him for the playoffs, and he has played in only one playoff game for us because of injuries. He's hurt when we need him most, so what good is he? Miller has a history of staying healthy.

I liked Halak...but the longer we had him, the less confident I was in him and the more I felt like he wasn't "the guy" for us.
Last year, when I heard we had a deal worked out where it was Halak for Miller, until Halak got hurt (shocker), and the deal was off. I had wished that deal had gone through.
Then, this year, when rumors were being tossed around earlier in the season, I really wanted that deal to go down...and I'm glad it did.

I'm happy Stewart is gone. The guy pissed me off something fierce. He would be pretty much invisible game after game after game...doing very little. Then he would have a good couple games, then disappear for another 10 games. He was frustrating to watch. He had a truckload of talent, but seemed lazy and disinterested on the ice at times. I have never liked Ott, because he's an ass of a player...but I'm sure I'll love having him playing for us and pissing off the other team for a change. One thing is for sure, Ott will have much more of an impact on this team than Stewart did this year.

People are upset about the 1st round pick and the possibility of a 2nd 1st rounder if we make the finals or re-sign Miller. Yeah, it kind of sucks to give up two 1st rounders, but if this move does indeed get us a cup this year, I don't think people will give a rat's ass about two first rounders going to Buffalo. This is probably the best chance the Blues have ever had at winning a cup...so they are going for it and not wasting the opportunity. Back in the early 00's, we had a great team but we lacked "the guy" in net...and Pleau was ridiculed and ripped for not being able to acquire Hasek, Burke or any other top goalies at the time who were supposedly "gettable" for that final piece of the puzzle. And we didn't get to the finals. Now we do make the move, and some still aren't happy.

The team is better now than they were before the trade. I don't know how anyone could dispute that. That's all you can ask for in a trade.

What else? Well, I'd like to see them try to get a scoring forward before the deadline. That might be the only thing left that we need...and it isn't a serious need, it's more like a "that would be nice" kind of deal because you can never have enough offense in the playoffs. But if they are done dealing, I'm more excited about the team now, than I have been in a long time.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby flyingnote38 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:42 am

not_a_wings_fan wrote:

:facepalm:

Which article were you referring to?



http://www.stlouisgametime.com/2014/2/2 ... -ott-trade

this was the pre trade one.

there are several post trade tepid responses as well. I could google "st louis gametime ott" and posts links or......
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:29 am

Okay, I saw that article but I wouldn't describe it as "choice words" like you did, which is why I was wondering what I missed.

Thanks.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby cardsfan04 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:50 am

cprice12 wrote:I don't get those who don't like this trade for the Blues. Anything short of describing this trade as a Home Run, is selling it short.
This is a fantastic trade...no matter what the guys at stlouisgametime.com are saying.

The only thing Halak had going for him over Miller was that he was younger.
Miller is just flat out better than Halak in pretty much every aspect of the game.
Some like to point out that Halak and Miller's numbers were very similar, but just comparing numbers is a horrible way to compare two goalies on teams at opposite ends of the standings. Miller was on a God-awful team. Halak was on a serious cup contender. You can't compare save% or GAA. You have to look at their history and watch how they play. If you watch Miller and Halak play, and tell me that they are about the same, you are a liar.

Army was being nice by saying Miller was only 5% better than Halak. What's he going to say to the press? That Halak sucks? He's going to be polite about it. Why piss off and publicly rip Halak?

And let's talk about stick handling... Halak was pretty bad at handling the puck. Miller is pretty darn good at it. It always really bothered me how bad Halak was with the puck...and not just with his stick, he had a poor glove hand as well.
Halak was good. Hell, very good at times...I wanted to like him so bad. But I was never 100% confident in him. He always made me nervous because he could be inconsistent...more so than most top goalies.
And don't get me started on Halak's inability to stay healthy. He hasn't been here when we needed him. We got him for the playoffs, and he has played in only one playoff game for us because of injuries. He's hurt when we need him most, so what good is he? Miller has a history of staying healthy.

I liked Halak...but the longer we had him, the less confident I was in him and the more I felt like he wasn't "the guy" for us.
Last year, when I heard we had a deal worked out where it was Halak for Miller, until Halak got hurt (shocker), and the deal was off. I had wished that deal had gone through.
Then, this year, when rumors were being tossed around earlier in the season, I really wanted that deal to go down...and I'm glad it did.

I'm happy Stewart is gone. The guy pissed me off something fierce. He would be pretty much invisible game after game after game...doing very little. Then he would have a good couple games, then disappear for another 10 games. He was frustrating to watch. He had a truckload of talent, but seemed lazy and disinterested on the ice at times. I have never liked Ott, because he's an ass of a player...but I'm sure I'll love having him playing for us and pissing off the other team for a change. One thing is for sure, Ott will have much more of an impact on this team than Stewart did this year.

People are upset about the 1st round pick and the possibility of a 2nd 1st rounder if we make the finals or re-sign Miller. Yeah, it kind of sucks to give up two 1st rounders, but if this move does indeed get us a cup this year, I don't think people will give a rat's ass about two first rounders going to Buffalo. This is probably the best chance the Blues have ever had at winning a cup...so they are going for it and not wasting the opportunity. Back in the early 00's, we had a great team but we lacked "the guy" in net...and Pleau was ridiculed and ripped for not being able to acquire Hasek, Burke or any other top goalies at the time who were supposedly "gettable" for that final piece of the puzzle. And we didn't get to the finals. Now we do make the move, and some still aren't happy.

The team is better now than they were before the trade. I don't know how anyone could dispute that. That's all you can ask for in a trade.

What else? Well, I'd like to see them try to get a scoring forward before the deadline. That might be the only thing left that we need...and it isn't a serious need, it's more like a "that would be nice" kind of deal because you can never have enough offense in the playoffs. But if they are done dealing, I'm more excited about the team now, than I have been in a long time.


Agreed 100%. I mean, it's a bit risky in that if we don't win it all this year and both Miller and Ott are gone next year it can instantly be considered a failure. But, I'm really happy to take that risk.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby cardsfan04 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:16 pm

flyingnote38 wrote:
not_a_wings_fan wrote:

:facepalm:

Which article were you referring to?



http://www.stlouisgametime.com/2014/2/2 ... -ott-trade

this was the pre trade one.

there are several post trade tepid responses as well. I could google "st louis gametime ott" and posts links or......


I don't know, that's a pretty weak argument against him IMO. He basically made 2 arguments against bringing him in here:

1. He didn't win over Blues fans as a member of the Stars. Who cares? How many opposing players have won over our hearts?
2. His FO% is 52.1% which would put him behind Sobotka's insanely good 60.9%. There's more to playing center than winning faceoffs. He's an upgrade over Stewart which makes it worthwhile IMO.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby Doohickie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:27 pm

Rumor has it that Halak is on his way to Minnesota.

Hi all. I'm from Buffalo, a Sabres fan. There are several of us from the Sabres forum that are now rooting for the Blues so that Miller and Ott can win a cup. Miller especially deserves it; after a promising start to his career reaching the conference finals, the Sabres have languished under the stale leadership of Darcy Regier and Lindy Ruff, and still can't find their butts under Tim Murray and... whoever the longterm coach turns out to be.

So here I am, a hockey fan, and no hope from my home team. Might as well root for the Blues.

As for this trade, I think it serves both teams. The Sabres aren't going anywhere and chances are Miller would have signed elsewhere to try to win a Cup rather than go through the ground up rebuild in Buffalo. Murray is not sentimental; if a player isn't likely to sign, Murray cashes him in for assets. With goalies you have a limited market so the Sabres knew they weren't going to get a ton of return. Still, the fans in Buffalo feel they "won" the trade, but I can see why St. Louis likes it too.

Some of you seem to question how good Ott will be for the Blues. He's a hard worker, a natural leader, an instigator and even a fighter at times. But he's also an offensive threat. He was on the Sabres (admittedly pathetic) power play and knows how to bury a puck. He also is a decent setup guy and knows how to dish the puck when the opportunity presents itself. Not a scoring line guy necessarily, but a decent second liner or outstanding third liner. Enjoy him; we did while he was in Buffalo.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:27 pm

cardsfan04 wrote:I don't know, that's a pretty weak argument against him IMO. He basically made 2 arguments against bringing him in here:

1. He didn't win over Blues fans as a member of the Stars. Who cares? How many opposing players have won over our hearts?
2. His FO% is 52.1% which would put him behind Sobotka's insanely good 60.9%. There's more to playing center than winning faceoffs. He's an upgrade over Stewart which makes it worthwhile IMO.


This.

I have to believe that Stewart's play was causing issues in the room. I don't see that happening with Ott.

The lesson from this whole thing is don't be a drifting pansy or you will get shipped to the worst team we can find for anyone we can get (see David Perron and Chris Stewart for confirmation), and that's the exact message ownership should be sending to players. They can't tolerate anyone who isn't 100%.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby Doohickie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:28 pm

Oh, and the Sabres already know what we're getting in Stewart. We have one already; we call him Drew Stafford. Under the right coach, maybe they can both elevate their games (Staff Infection seems to be improving under Ted Nolan, but we don't know if Nolan will be back next year).
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby dmiles2186 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:32 pm

Doohickie wrote:As for this trade, I think it serves both teams. The Sabres aren't going anywhere and chances are Miller would have signed elsewhere to try to win a Cup rather than go through the ground up rebuild in Buffalo. Murray is not sentimental; if a player isn't likely to sign, Murray cashes him in for assets. With goalies you have a limited market so the Sabres knew they weren't going to get a ton of return. Still, the fans in Buffalo feel they "won" the trade, but I can see why St. Louis likes it too.


First of all, welcome to the board. Hope you'll be around for awhile to see how Miller and Ott do in our blue and yellow.

I think you bring up a really great point here, though. Both fan bases feel they 'won' the trade and that's usually an indication the trade is a win-win for both sides. You guys get draft picks and assets. We get a goalie we've all been clamoring for (some more than others) and a gritty center who can score and skates non stop, which is a great thing compared to the forward we gave up (Stewart).

You've probably seen throughout this thread that Stewart is one of the more enigmatic players you will see. He can hit, he can score, but he takes nights off. Granted, he may not be in Buffalo very long. But you always hope a guy like that, with tons of talent, could just put the heart and the 'get it done' attitude with it. Stew could be a force in this league as a power forward. I hope he can be that guy for you guys, and if not, hopefully you can cash him in for a good haul in return to help aid your rebuild.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby Doohickie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:34 pm

One other thing: If you look at the farewell presser when Miler and Ott left, they are both humbled that St. Louis management sees them as potentially final pieces for a Cup run. Miler in particular is very humbled. He won't be a head case (well, no worse than any other goalie is). He played his heart out in Buffalo for a team that sucks out loud and was able to keep it together. I think he's relishing the opportunity to play for a Real Team again.

Both guys had strong ties to Buffalo and were well-liked in the community. My personal fantasy is that the Blues win it all and having a Cup under their belts, Miller and Ott can be persuaded to return as free agents to help the Sabres become strong contenders again.

Of course that's kind of what I hoped would happen with Brian Campbell and it never happened, so I realize it is just a fantasy. But at this point in Buffalo, hopes, dreams and draft picks is all we have right now.


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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby Doohickie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:37 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:You've probably seen throughout this thread that Stewart is one of the more enigmatic players you will see. He can hit, he can score, but he takes nights off. Granted, he may not be in Buffalo very long. But you always hope a guy like that, with tons of talent, could just put the heart and the 'get it done' attitude with it. Stew could be a force in this league as a power forward. I hope he can be that guy for you guys, and if not, hopefully you can cash him in for a good haul in return to help aid your rebuild.


There's a thread on the Sabres forum called "Stafford Needs to Go". That thread pretty much exactly describes Drew Stafford in the way you describe Stewart. If Ted Nolan remains the coach, I think he will have a shot at both of them excelling. Heck, they may even end up in a competition for ice time where each one drives the other.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby dmiles2186 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:57 pm

Listening to TSN Winnipeg and they just said Halak is the backup tonight in Buffalo's game. Trying to keep him healthy so he can be moved, eh? :mrgreen:
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby Doohickie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:23 pm

Yeah, that's the scuttlebutt on the Sabres forum. It could just as well be that Ted Nolan wants to talk to Halak a bit before his first start and let him practice with the team first, too. He's one of those coaches that wants to know his players.

You know, for Friday's game, the Sabres AHL team was in Chicago and the trade was made less than an hour before game time. To get the league required backup goalie, the Sabres went to one of their IT guys on the business side of the house (a former high school goalie and college goalie video coach while he was a student). They signed him to a zero cost amateur tryout contract, gave him a uniform and put him on the bench. Lucky for him he plays in a beer league and had his pads with him at work that day. If the Sabres trade Halak, the IT guy might get another stint on the bench.

There's a decent chance Stewart will be moved, too.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby STLADOGG » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:35 pm

Doohickie wrote:You know, for Friday's game, the Sabres AHL team was in Chicago and the trade was made less than an hour before game time. To get the league required backup goalie, the Sabres went to one of their IT guys on the business side of the house (a former high school goalie and college goalie video coach while he was a student). They signed him to a zero cost amateur tryout contract, gave him a uniform and put him on the bench. Lucky for him he plays in a beer league and had his pads with him at work that day. If the Sabres trade Halak, the IT guy might get another stint on the bench.

The Blues were in Anaheim when the trade was made so they used someone from the Anaheim's arena crew to be the backup for the Blues. Thank God Enroth or Elliott didn't get injured.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby dmiles2186 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:36 pm

STLADOGG wrote:
Doohickie wrote:You know, for Friday's game, the Sabres AHL team was in Chicago and the trade was made less than an hour before game time. To get the league required backup goalie, the Sabres went to one of their IT guys on the business side of the house (a former high school goalie and college goalie video coach while he was a student). They signed him to a zero cost amateur tryout contract, gave him a uniform and put him on the bench. Lucky for him he plays in a beer league and had his pads with him at work that day. If the Sabres trade Halak, the IT guy might get another stint on the bench.

The Blues were in Anaheim when the trade was made so they used someone from the Anaheim's arena crew to be the backup for the Blues. Thank God Enroth or Elliott didn't get injured.


Man, for those guys, I don't care that it was just one game and all you did was sit on the bench. That you were on an NHL roster for one game, with your own jersey, your name in the box score...that's pretty awesome. You'll never get to do that ever again (except for maybe the IT guy).
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby Doohickie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:18 pm

There was an article about the guy from Buffalo. Let me see if I can find it.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby flyingnote38 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:28 pm

not_a_wings_fan wrote:Okay, I saw that article but I wouldn't describe it as "choice words" like you did, which is why I was wondering what I missed.

Thanks.


The other pre draft one was from the editor(?) in the game day am thread that day -- whatever they call it (the one during the day not during the game). . Can't remember his exact wording and not sure how to locate it now, but it was something along the lines of if it's ott just shoot me now. Only mentioned them at all because I was surprised at how uniformly thrilled everyone here seemed to be.

The Calgary trade I brought up jumped to mind as the most similar scenario to the Blues' current situation and what we did. Looking back at the acquisitions the past 30cup winners made in season, perhaps the most similar would be colorado's 1996 deal for Patrick Roy and Mike Keene. Dealing Rucinsky, Kovalenko, and Thibault. I would suggest that the key to this deal was the upgrade of Thibault to Roy and that upgrade being more than the 5% Army says he feels our goalie change represents. However, an elite goalie and a checking line forward with playoff creds is a fair fit.

Miller compared to Elliot is a comparable upgrade, but we never really got to see what we had in Halak in the playoffs. So we're all hoping Miller proves Army right, but I would still say a scoring line center would have improved are chances more.
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