Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:17 pm

Even though Elliot has played better than Halak over the same time frame?

Halak's injury status was likely a factor in this move. The fact that he's been here this long and we don't know what he can do in the playoffs is a big deal.

Meh, it's done. We will have to come back next year and see what we think of the trade and maybe the year after that as well.

I see Elliot gone by the draft regardless.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby flyingnote38 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:06 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/blockbuster-appearance-improvement-learned-152843271--nhl.html

just one more person with a similar negative take on the trade

key quote "Another reason this was a curious trade is that it failed to address the Blues' real issue, which is to say that they're probably not doing enough offensively to convince anyone who's paying real attention that they're true contenders in the Western Conference, let alone for the Stanley Cup"

"the Blues get Miller and Ott, who presumably adds “grit” (and has a potentially negative impact on possession due to his not being very good), "
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:52 am

In reading his article it's pretty clear that he isn't following the Blues much.

The bullet points on this trade from someone who actually watches the Blues play and doesn't just look at metrics:

> Berglund is used wrong as a center
>Stewart is a drifter not playing to his potential
>Halak has injury history - his groin could explode at any moment, why do you think Buffalo has him as a backup until he can be traded again?
>Halak just came off a shitty performance in the Olympics (he was BAD)
>Halak has played so few playoff games in STL that he's an unknown

> Miller won a Vezina
>Miller is a gamer - See his olympic performance and his work ethic on a shitty, shitty Buffalo team (for years!)
>Ott is being used wrong in Buffalo (stats linky - and the whole argument against the trade is based off those stats. We aren't asking him to play career high minutes as a shutdown center - we already have that covered, but that's exactly what he's been doing in Buffalo. He's not that good, we know it and don't have that expectation.
>Ott is a gamer - he's universally respected for his work ethic, nasty edge, and heart
>Clearing Stew and his salary increases flexibility (more trades coming?) and opens a second line spot on the wing for any number of more consistent, defensively committed players

The only award I could find for Ryan Lambert's "journalism" was dickhead of the year and I feel like he misrepresented this source in his article.

I think he makes some decent points - I would like a top six scoring forward as well. I would have much rather plucked moulson out of Buffalo over Ott.

FWIW, St. Louis had better corsi/fenwick numbers 5v5 and 5v4 than Pitt or Chi last year, and look where that landed.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:24 am

flyingnote38 wrote:key quote "Another reason this was a curious trade is that it failed to address the Blues' real issue, which is to say that they're probably not doing enough offensively to convince anyone who's paying real attention that they're true contenders in the Western Conference, let alone for the Stanley Cup"


My counter to this...

Presently the Blues rank 3rd in Goals Per Game at 3.22 behind Chicago (3.36) and Anaheim (3.23) and in front of the likes of Pittsburgh (3.13), Boston (3.12), Colorado (3.03), and San Jose (2.89).

In 5 on 5 Goals For/Against ratio, the Blues rank 4th at 1.37 behind Boston (1.45), Anaheim (1.44), and Chicago (1.40).

Powerplay, the Blues rank 4th at 21.3%, behind Pittsburgh (25.0%), Washington (22.1%), and Chicago (21.4%).

And in the plain ol' Goals For category, the Blues rank 3rd with 193 behind Chicago (208) and Anaheim (200).

How is this not 'doing enough offensively?' The Blues are literally doing almost the best in the league offensively in every category. Mind you, in overall goals for, the Blues have 2 games in hand on both Chicago and Anaheim. No, they probably won't score 15 goals in 2 games to match Chicago, but could they score 7 in 2 games? Sure.

Point is, so many people think the Blues 'need' offense because we don't have an Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane, Toews, Thornton, etc. What they don't think about is that we've got scoring up and down the roster, as evidenced by the Blues being near the top in how many double digit goal scorers they have.

Where in these stats does it say the Blues need to do more offensively? (More of a question to Ryan Lambert than anyone, but still...)
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby ComradeT » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:05 pm

Since averages may be misleading as scoring goes in ebbs and flows, here are a few more metrics that show how similar the Blues are to Ducks, Hawks, Kings and Sharks. In fact (and I totally didn't expect this), it shows that Blues are on average, more prolific than the other four teams. While goaltending problems is not a direct conclusion, what we can say is that Blues' offense is not an issue this year and they lose to the Ducks, the Kings and the Sharks because of other factors. Blues' offense may struggle against the Ducks, Kings and Sharks but I would argue that it is mostly due to an extremely physical forecheck of these teams that we cannot match or find a way around.

% Shutouts represent % games in which teams listed scored 0 goals (so shutout defeats or 0-0 draws). I used the results from the schedule and decreased goals scored by 1 in an event of a shootout win. The remaining rows are similar in that they represent % games with certain number of goals scored.

I decreased goals scored by 1 for shootout wins, so this represents total goals scored.

Feel free to poke holes in this analysis. There are bound to be some... Blues just can't be that good offensively.

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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby dmiles2186 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:42 pm



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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby APOD » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:12 pm

This might have been posted some where in here before, but this would be crazy awesome to trade the first round pick.

As for trading Ryan Miller to St. Louis, Buffalo gets the Blues' 2014 first-round pick if Miller re-signs before the June draft or if they win two playoff rounds. Satirist extraordinaire Down Goes Brown wondered if the Blues can still trade that pick, assuming neither condition is met. Research indicates the answer is yes. Sort of. Let's assume -- and I'm totally making up this scenario -- St. Louis trades that 2014 first-rounder for Thomas Vanek of the New York Islanders. Before that move would be approved, there must be a written guarantee of what the Islanders would get should Buffalo's conditions occur.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby Oaklandblue » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:30 pm

This trade was so good, it got Bergy to start scoring goals.

Nuff said.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby flyingnote38 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:07 am

This trade was so good, it got Bergy to start scoring goals.


Stewie was holding him back.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby dmiles2186 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:01 pm

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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby sseagle » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:24 pm

dmiles2186 wrote:



GreatER trade
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby sseagle » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:05 pm

sseagle wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:



GreatER trade


He finished the game... so I guess he didnt get hurt
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby STLADOGG » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:26 am

Hopefully he is ok, I sure as hell wouldn't wish he gets injured.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby rbochan » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:04 am

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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby glen a richter » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:40 pm

rbochan wrote:


:lol:
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:25 pm

sseagle wrote:
sseagle wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:



GreatER trade


He finished the game... so I guess he didnt get hurt

He actually did not return, and hasn't played since.

Word out of Buffalo is he most likely done for the season.

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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby glen a richter » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:59 pm

#80, eh? In baseball, the high numbers are reserved for guys who really aren't remotely ready for the big show. Apparently Buffalo is following the same concept with Stewart.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby sseagle » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:50 pm

not_a_wings_fan wrote:
sseagle wrote:
sseagle wrote:
dmiles2186 wrote:



GreatER trade


He finished the game... so I guess he didnt get hurt

He actually did not return, and hasn't played since.

Word out of Buffalo is he most likely done for the season.

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played, didn't play... his stat line looks the same.
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby not_a_wings_fan » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:03 pm

sseagle wrote:
not_a_wings_fan wrote:
sseagle wrote:
sseagle wrote:
played, didn't play... his stat line looks the same.
yep, he's been +/- -2 from th press box the last two games. :lol:
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Re: Ryan Miller/Steve Ott to STL, Halak/Stew/Carrier to BUF

Postby WaukeeBlues » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:00 pm

That replay is disgusting. Ugh...
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