THE OFFICIAL POLITICS THREAD

[theohall]

Forbes wrote an article about the expected impact of a Fair Tax.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/ ... -below-10/

It has this graphic that shows the expected impact for each quintile if a national sales tax were to replace an income tax. 80% of the country would have it's tax burden go up while the top 20% would have it's tax burden decrease. That's not going to help the middle class.

Exactly! Everyone starts paying their share - not just the rich who carry the burden of many who don't even try. Maybe the rest of the country would wake up to the inadequacies and outrageous over-spending of government if they were footing the bill, vice mostly just the rich - as it currently stands.

[cardsfan04]

Forbes wrote an article about the expected impact of a Fair Tax.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/ ... -below-10/

It has this graphic that shows the expected impact for each quintile if a national sales tax were to replace an income tax. 80% of the country would have it's tax burden go up while the top 20% would have it's tax burden decrease. That's not going to help the middle class.

Exactly! Everyone starts paying their share - not just the rich who carry the burden of many who don't even try. Maybe the rest of the country would wake up to the inadequacies and outrageous over-spending of government if they were footing the bill, vice mostly just the rich - as it currently stands.

Do you really think the lower and middle classes are where they are because they don't even try? That's a huge generalization. Sure, there are some that fit that profile. There are also some that fit that profile in the upper class, but were just born into money. It works both ways.

But, regardless of that, pragmatism should almost always trump ideology when it comes to policy. It sounds really nice to say things like, "everybody pay their fair share." Who could argue against that? But, what a fair tax would do, as shown in that chart, is have the upper 20% pay less taxes and have the lower and middle classes pay more taxes. That would strengthen the upper class and weaken the lower and middle classes. The lower and middle classes would have the same amount of money coming in but more going out. Outside of making day-to-day life harder on 80% of the country, it would limit spending power for 80% of the country which would stunt the economy.

I know there are some that take advantage. That's a problem. But, the solution isn't to take more money out of the lower and middle class's pockets. That will backfire. Also, ironically enough, the article I linked mentioned prebates given to counter the lower class's tax burden creating a larger welfare system than currently exists.

[cardsfan04]

Also, the top 1% of the US makes up for 40% of the nation's wealth. But, the fair tax would lower their tax burden from 36.7% to 21.0%. Granted, I'm talking about net wealth and not income, but still.

[glen a richter]

As a teacher, I will never vote for Kasich, or Walker, or the biggest scumbag of all, Chris Christie. Not in a billion years. If these toolbags think the unions are causing the problems in education in America today, they need to come into the classrooms and take a good hard look at how much effort we put into teaching kids who don't give a flying flip about anything but their stupid cell phones. The fact that we get these kids involved and engaged at all is a miracle in the face of every electronic distraction they have at their disposal in 21st century America. I, for one, am sick of being treated like crap by politicians on both sides of the aisle. I'm a professional, I am highly qualified, highly educated, highly experienced and highly successful at what I do. It's why I didn't vote for Andrew Cuomo in his re-election bid, opting for the Republican candidate (Rob Astorino) and why I would never vote for anyone who disrespects what I do for a living. Kasich could promise me a million dollars a year, tax free, just because he thinks I'm a nice guy and I still wouldn't vote for him.

[The Flake]

As a teacher, I will never vote for Kasich, or Walker, or the biggest scumbag of all, Chris Christie. Not in a billion years. If these toolbags think the unions are causing the problems in education in America today, they need to come into the classrooms and take a good hard look at how much effort we put into teaching kids who don't give a flying flip about anything but their stupid cell phones. The fact that we get these kids involved and engaged at all is a miracle in the face of every electronic distraction they have at their disposal in 21st century America. I, for one, am sick of being treated like crap by politicians on both sides of the aisle. I'm a professional, I am highly qualified, highly educated, highly experienced and highly successful at what I do. It's why I didn't vote for Andrew Cuomo in his re-election bid, opting for the Republican candidate (Rob Astorino) and why I would never vote for anyone who disrespects what I do for a living. Kasich could promise me a million dollars a year, tax free, just because he thinks I'm a nice guy and I still wouldn't vote for him.

Good teachers like you aren't the problem and I agree that children now, more than ever are distracted or not made to focus. There are also some serious problems with the school system, teachers unions and the board of education as a whole. There is a reason why so many people are home schooling and charter schools are so successful right now.

For starters, the national board of education and the "no kids left behind" and now "core" standards were both crap. We need to eliminate the federal BOE and allow states to choose the curriculum for the students. Schools are funded now more than ever and my kid doesn't even have a school book that is his. It stays in the classroom.

Plus there are plenty of bad teachers that are protected by union policy as well. There should be accountability within the system for poor job performance.

And you prove a good point, if there are distractions in the classroom, why are they allowed?

[glen a richter]

The impact of the unions on the quality of education is grossly overstated, and the public falls for it hook, line and sinker every time.

Fact is, there are bad teachers--true. I'm not denying that. But the problem is largely self correcting. In spite of what most people think, teaching is a tough job. You go in expecting a classroom full of bright eyed inquiring minds and what you get is the polar opposite. In great schools, you have to deal with the burden of staying steps ahead of incredibly smart kids. In lousy schools, you have to deal withe the burden of awful, sometimes criminal behavior, all while having to meet the same educational expectations as every other student in the country. Most lousy teachers figure out right away that they're lousy teachers and quit before their 3rd year. I've seen new teachers come in September raring to go, and they're gone by December. I've seen the occasional rotten teacher who slips through the cracks and somehow manages to keep their job, but the majority of teachers are absolutely competent and most of the lousy ones who don't quit on their own get the boot eventually, usually through repeated denial of tenure (which only guarantees due process, not a job for life) after failed efforts at coaching them to do better jobs.

Our educational problems have zero to do with the unions. Zero. The problem is that we have a one size fits all mentality in this country. No Child Left Behind to Race to the Top (same garbage, different name), common core, etc... is setting up a grossly flawed system.

I had a kid a couple of years ago, this kid was not academically inclined. He wanted to be a mechanic. But, because we have one size fits all schooling, this kid was forced into an academic track. He was in my astronomy class, and thankfully it was an elective class so there was a lot more flexibility than if he was in one of my core classes. He was a distraction every single day. His mothers defense was she had tried everything and didn't know what else to do. The counselors sort of tried but nothing really helped, and there were never any grounds for suspending, expelling or otherwise removing him from the class except for the one time he got suspended for fighting. This year he was in my friends class, a core class. He pulled the same shenanigans, caused the same distractions daily, counselors did nothing, mother did nothing and towards the end of the year when he stopped showing up to class, we figured that there was a pretty fair chance it was because he was arrested as it was suspected that he was a drug dealer.

Moral of this anecdote? The educational system is broken because our current politicians, and not our unions, have set up insane educational requirements that don't jive with a society populated by all kinds. The unions are there to protect the rights of the teachers. The teachers who are incompetent weed themselves out, by and large, and the other ones are dealt with accordingly. The extreme majority of the teachers in this country are just fine at what we do.

My proposal to improve education in this country starts with a shift towards career prep at the onset of high school. Every exiting 8th grader, with the guidance of school counselors, teachers and of course their parents, should be given the opportunity to pick from a menu of high school tracks, for example a physical sciences track, a history and political science track, or of course a vocational track--the oft ignored track that leaves many non-academically inclined students in the dust. Depending on which track the students pick, they know going into 9th grade exactly what classes they'll have to take in order to graduate with their track specific diploma. Vocational students won't have to take classes like calculus and physics, instead taking courses like every day business math along with HVAC courses and courses in being an electrician or an auto mechanic. Physical science students won't waste time with biology, while life science students won't waste time with geology. The kids will have the opportunity to switch, if they choose, up to the end of the 2nd year, and may spend up to six years in high school if they do switch. Put the kids in the classes that suit them and a lot of problems go away. This isn't a union thing, this is a DOE thing. The federal government has to allow equal value to different types of high school diplomas. States or local districts can develop the programs they feel best suit their demographic, the federal government can have oversight into which ones are acceptable and which aren't, but we just can't expect kids who don't give a crap to be accommodating to those who do give a crap when they're dumped into the same classes with each other. That's the overriding problem and that's what needs to be fixed, not union busting and replacing good teachers with green, cheaper kids fresh out of college.

[The Flake]

Hmmm. That is a really good idea to mainstream the school system for what you intend to do with your life as a career. The only negative I could foresee would be that a lot of kids don't know what they really want to do when they are in HS...most have trouble figuring out their college major and switch from one major to another. Heck adults can flip flop from one professional job to another over time.

Another issue is making sure all kids are taught the basics well and that by the time they reach high school, they can read proficiently, they can write proficiently, they can do basic math and have multiplication facts memorized, they can balance a budget, etc. A lot of kids now are given a free pass and slip through the system without these basic skills. From what I've seen raising kids through the school system, elementary schools are the key. If kids don't get the right tools early on, they are lost as they get further into grade levels. By the time they get to HS its almost too late.

This most definitely makes the job of a HS teacher hard. Plus there are just some students who just don't care about any thing but................ You fill in the blank. What you suggest would greatly help this type of student but I think it is important that we get the basics covered first.

[glen a richter]

So Kasich wants to get rid of teacher lounges... you know what I do in the "lounge"? I wolf down my lunch in three minutes and then spend the rest of my paltry available time prepping labs and lessons for the next day, grading tests, creating tests, developing new ways of getting these kids engaged that actually make sense. I don't have but three minutes of actual "free" time to chew and choke my lunch.

Also, did you know (and I'll assume not because many people are blissfully unaware of how teachers are rated) that 20% of my rating is based on how other teachers do? This is the genius of the state government, not the unions, that I should have fully 1/5th of my rating as a science teacher based on how the kids do on a standardized English or math exam. You know what that does? That hurts all teachers, not just the lousy ones. Two years ago, I was rated highly effective--the highest possible rating--on classroom observations and student performance, and my overall rating dropped one full step because the kids couldn't pass their English assessment. This past year, I got an even higher (numerically) rating on my observations and I'm completely expecting to be knocked down again because my fate is partially in the hands of a group of teachers in a totally different department! How is that not messed up? It's a clever ruse to get people either fired or so ticked off they quit, in order to get salaries, benefits and pensions down. How about this? They already addressed pensions by creating a new tier that has to pay in their entire career. Make another tier that has to pay for their medical and pension throughout their careers. The problem will self correct over 15-20 years. I've actually been attacked by a lot of colleagues for making this suggestion, they call it eating the young. But you know what? If we don't eat the young, the government never leave the rest of us alone. Politicians don't give a flying leap about the kids. They use that as a cover for their true intentions. All they want is to save money by creating such a hostile work environment that a good percentage of teachers just say screw it and leave the profession. They're actually screwing the kids by creating unrealistic curricula that makes no sense. If you don't believe me, take a look at how they teach math in elementary school today and compare it to the way you learned when you were in school. Your head will spin at how ridiculous it is.

[cardsfan04]

I'm not sure how this Kim Davis stuff gets resolved. She's going to turn into a martyr for her "cause," so I doubt jail will make her reverse course. Frequently contempt jailings end when it becomes clear that it didn't work, but how can a judge allow her to return to her position knowing she's going to continue to abuse her power?

[glen a richter]

This is something that truly bugs me about the religious folk... if God is the judge of everything, who are they to do his or her job? Follow the rules established by the Supreme Court and let God sort it out later on. If you live righteously, you should be good to go one way or the other. As I see it, I'm more likely to get into heaven if such a place exists simply by being a good person 7 days a week rather than being good one day a week and being a dick to people different from me the other six.

In any event, she broke the law so she should be in jail. If she refuses to do her job, she should stay in jail until her term ends and then that's that.

[cardsfan04]

Agreed. SCOTUS ruled. She knowingly defied and was warned. Then, she continued to defy the order clearly in contempt of court. I'm not a big fan of jailing people for non-violent offenses like this, but I don't know what else the court can do.

Judge mentioned fine as a possibility, but (likely correctly) surmised that her supporters would just pay it for her making it a useless penalty.

[WaukeeBlues]

I know what would fix education in America.

Parents teaching some accountability and actually, you know, parenting their kids to realizing the value of education instead of raising them to be entitled little @$$holes.

That'd help.

[glen a richter]

I know what would fix education in America.

Parents teaching some accountability and actually, you know, parenting their kids to realizing the value of education instead of raising them to be entitled little @$$holes.

That'd help.

Well yeah that's true... a lot of that problem stems from the fact that the parents are so flipping young though. A couple of years ago, I had a kid ask me how old I was, so I told her... at the time I was 32. This girl was 16 years old and she said to me "oh, you're the same age as my mom!". This is commonplace. Kids raising kids, so the problem just gets progressively worse. A kid will not discipline another kid. They have babies at 15, 16 years old because they don't know what discipline is! Grandparents come to see me on parent/teacher night and I swear they're not more than 50 years old, if that. I'm very liberal on a number of issues, but as far as discipline and raising a child, I'm as far right as you can get before you start coming back the other side. You can't raise a proper child by being a softy. I mean I guess there's a point of diminishing returns where the discipline can be too much and the kids rebel, but just giving them free reign to do what they please and come and go as they please, that's just moronic.

[The Flake]

I'm not sure how this Kim Davis stuff gets resolved. She's going to turn into a martyr for her "cause," so I doubt jail will make her reverse course. Frequently contempt jailings end when it becomes clear that it didn't work, but how can a judge allow her to return to her position knowing she's going to continue to abuse her power?

What law has she violated? She is currently upholding the KY state law voted on by 70% of Kentuckians. The Judiciary is overstepping their bounds on this one. You can site the law (given to us by our legislators) that she has broken in the space below.



This is happening in my backyard and I applaud Kim for her conviction and courage. She is being a peaceful dissident and objector. It seems now that "Oath Keepers" are getting involved and we will see if this escalates any more.

[cardsfan04]

I'm not sure how this Kim Davis stuff gets resolved. She's going to turn into a martyr for her "cause," so I doubt jail will make her reverse course. Frequently contempt jailings end when it becomes clear that it didn't work, but how can a judge allow her to return to her position knowing she's going to continue to abuse her power?

What law has she violated? She is currently upholding the KY state law voted on by 70% of Kentuckians. The Judiciary is overstepping their bounds on this one. You can site the law (given to us by our legislators) that she has broken in the space below.



This is happening in my backyard and I applaud Kim for her conviction and courage. She is being a peaceful dissident and objector. It seems now that "Oath Keepers" are getting involved and we will see if this escalates any more.

Whether you like it or not, SCOTUS ruled. Their ruling is binding. There is no grey area here. They ruled and she didn't follow it. Then a judge warned her and she still didn't comply. That's called contempt of court. It's black and white. SCOTUS didn't overstep their bounds. Its role is to rule on whether laws are discriminatory in nature. Denying civil rights based on sexual orientation is discrimination.

While I'm against her on this issue, I would feel the same if SCOTUS made the opposite ruling and an elected official started issuing marriage certificates. When you're a public official, you can't pick and choose which laws you like even if you're peaceful about it. Non-violence isn't the standard.

[cardsfan04]

I know you think you're being clever by asking me to quote the law, but here's the one she broke:

403.760 Contempt of court. (Effective until January 1, 2016)
(1) Violation of the terms or conditions of an order issued under the provisions of
KRS 403.740 or 403.750, whether an emergency protective order, or an order
following hearing, after service of the order on the respondent, or notice of the
order to the respondent, shall constitute contempt of court.
(2) Any peace officer having probable cause to believe a violation has occurred of
an order issued under the provisions of KRS 403.740 or 403.750, whether an
emergency protective order or an order following a hearing, and after service
on the respondent or notice to the respondent as provided under KRS 403.735,
shall arrest the respondent without a warrant for violation of a protective order
pursuant to KRS 500.020, 403.715, and 403.740. Following a hearing the
District Court in the county in which the peace officer made the arrest for the
violation may punish the violation of a protective order as a violation of a
protective order.
(3) Court proceedings for contempt of court, under KRS 403.715 to 403.785, shall
be held in the county where the order, whether an emergency protective order
or order following hearing, was issued.
(4) Nothing in this section shall preclude the Commonwealth from prosecuting and
convicting the respondent of criminal offenses other than violation of a
protective order.
(5) Civil proceedings and criminal proceedings for violation of a protective order for
the same violation of a protective order shall be mutually exclusive. Once
either proceeding has been initiated the other shall not be undertaken
regardless of the outcome of the original proceeding.
Effective:July 14, 1992
History: Amended 1992 Ky. Acts ch. 172, sec. 10, effective July 14, 1992. --
Created 1984 Ky. Acts ch. 152, sec. 10, effective July 13, 1984.

[The Flake]

This is something that truly bugs me about the religious folk... if God is the judge of everything, who are they to do his or her job? Follow the rules established by the Supreme Court and let God sort it out later on. If you live righteously, you should be good to go one way or the other. As I see it, I'm more likely to get into heaven if such a place exists simply by being a good person 7 days a week rather than being good one day a week and being a dick to people different from me the other six.

In any event, she broke the law so she should be in jail. If she refuses to do her job, she should stay in jail until her term ends and then that's that.

God is judge over all. This is true. But we (Christians) are told to use discernment in how we conduct our lives, who we associate with and what influences our families. What does discernment mean? That's right, we have to make these decisions and act accordingly. We are also told to be good stewards of what God has given us. Just because we are not humanities ultimate judge doesn't mean we are restricted to the sidelines for everyone else's bidding to be mandated.

Also, being a 'good' person doesn't get you an automatic buy into heaven. We have all sinned and unless you repent and get right with the Lord, you shouldn't expect to be holding that golden ticket to get into Wankas. Just sayin'.

[The Flake]

I'm not sure how this Kim Davis stuff gets resolved. She's going to turn into a martyr for her "cause," so I doubt jail will make her reverse course. Frequently contempt jailings end when it becomes clear that it didn't work, but how can a judge allow her to return to her position knowing she's going to continue to abuse her power?

What law has she violated? She is currently upholding the KY state law voted on by 70% of Kentuckians. The Judiciary is overstepping their bounds on this one. You can site the law (given to us by our legislators) that she has broken in the space below.



This is happening in my backyard and I applaud Kim for her conviction and courage. She is being a peaceful dissident and objector. It seems now that "Oath Keepers" are getting involved and we will see if this escalates any more.

Whether you like it or not, SCOTUS ruled. Their ruling is binding. There is no grey area here. They ruled and she didn't follow it. Then a judge warned her and she still didn't comply. That's called contempt of court. It's black and white. SCOTUS didn't overstep their bounds. Its role is to rule on whether laws are discriminatory in nature. Denying civil rights based on sexual orientation is discrimination.

While I'm against her on this issue, I would feel the same if SCOTUS made the opposite ruling and an elected official started issuing marriage certificates. When you're a public official, you can't pick and choose which laws you like even if you're peaceful about it. Non-violence isn't the standard.

Still didn't answer the question. What law did SCOTUS rule on and say that it was unconstitutional? Was it the defense of marriage act?

I also believe that sexual freedom is not guaranteed under the constitution or the Bill of Rights. And make no mistake, this is about legalizing sexual immorality, not about freedom to love. What's next? Bigamy? Incest? Pedophilia? Bestiality? I'm not joking. Where does this type of sexually immoral freedom end? What's the next fight on the docket for SCOTUS in the generations to come? This is a dark path our country has decided to tread upon and this is just the beginning.

But marriage is a sacred union that God binds together, not man.

And I concede that an elected official needs to uphold her oath and the law. In her defense, KY state law voted on by the majority of its citizens oppose gay marriage. SCOTA erased the will of the people with one court case and the dissenting judges stated that they believed the other judges were legislating from the bench. This case sets a very bad precedent and this fight will last for decades. Furthermore, its a slap in Gods face that we are allowing it to happen and to think how he has blessed this country....

[cardsfan04]

I get that you disagree with the ruling. That doesn't invalidate it.

[The Flake]

Also, speaking of Kim and her not upholding the law. What about Obama as well as whole cities ignoring immigration law? Should we jail him for not enforcing the law when he wishes? What about the cities who have 'sanctuary' laws for illegal immigrants? Should all these mayors be jailed until the law is upheld?

Why is there always a double standard that sways in the favor of liberal behavior.