Defensive Future

[WaukeeBlues]

I've seen some rumblings, which I'm taking with a huge grain of salt because it's not the first time I've seen rumblings like this, that Toronto made an offer for Pietrangelo.

In a hypothetical scenario, as we get closer to the trade deadline if Army feels like he obviously won't be re-signing Pie (which I think will be the case, that he ends up on Toronto next season anyway) and someone down in San Antonio proves to be ready to come up, would you support trading him to avoid losing him for nothing, particularly and specifically trading the captain that close to beginning the Cup defense?

I just see no way the Maple Leafs can afford to offer him an extension that'd be so far beyond what the Blues would offer AND being able to assemble any semblance of depth on their blueline, at the same time. That's not even getting into what it would cost the Maple Leafs in a trade to get him in the first place. If the Blues are in the hunt (which it appears by all indications the Blues will be) Armstrong probably will not even listen to any offers and just go for the cup again. If he does consider offers, it'll be a minimum first round pick, salary and a prospect; with the price only going up from there. The Leafs don't even have their first from THIS year. They're going to give up another one? (making 4(?) years in a row without a first round pick)

If the extension offers were largely similar I'd think Pietro would stay in the bluenote. Plus, taxes. He'd have to get almost overpaid to sign an extension with the Leafs upon a trade. I would think. The Leafs are just simply out of cap space. Plain and simple. They'd have to let all 3 of Ceci, Muzzin and Barrie go to free the cap space amount it would take to get him done. There's just no way.

I say we trade Pietro and a pick to Ottawa for Brady Tkachuk

[theohall]

That's just the usual hot air surrounding whomever is playing Toronto and that team having a player the Maple Leafs, their fans, or their media, actually want on their team.

Last week, Hockey Central at Noon was really bad with one of the hosts actually suggesting the Blues would trade Pietrangelo for Nylander straight up. Note, I said it was REALLY BAD. The other two dudes on the air didn't lambast him, at first, but basically roasted him a few minutes later.

[JCShutout]

I'd say it depends on the return and if we look like we have a legit chance. If the team is reeling and super injured and the offer is a blue chip prospect or two and a 1st, do it to continue the window. If we're still in solid playoff shape, then keep him for the run. He's producing.

If the team is reeling and super injured and the offer is garbage, keep him and take your chances. If its a great offer but we look like we have a chance to go deep, keep him.

[theohall]

Right now - 3 game losing streak looks rough considering how the Sabres won - which was more about Vince Dunn ignoring Jack Eichel and turning to defend someone near the blue line, instead of protecting the front of the net, than anything else. Pietrangelo is playing really good most of the time and the Blues don't really have a replacement for his caliber of play in the organization. Right now, the Blues are blessed with two #1 caliber RD in Pietrangelo and Parayko. Faulk isn't even close to the level of play those two exhibit. He's a "good" defenseman, but not a "great" one. Would we be happy with one "great" D, one "good" D and a 3rd guy like Bortuzzo??

I don't see trading Pietrangelo as any reasonable answer, unless it is absolutely clear the Blues and he are so far apart there is no chance of signing him.

[WaukeeBlues]

...
I don't see trading Pietrangelo as any reasonable answer, unless it is absolutely clear the Blues and he are so far apart there is no chance of signing him.

And even then we are still in "win now, shoot our shot" mode so its eminently more likely he stays and we go for it again.

When we dealt Stastny at the deadline the team was on the downswing and didn't look like we'd make it. When we traded Shatty I think we were in good shape but he was a defensive liability at that point. Pietro isn't that and I sure hope the Blues aren't in that position come February.

[theohall]

Mikkola recalled with Gunnarson out due to UBI. We'll see if he actually gets to play.

[glen a richter]

Some small rumblings the Blues are in on Taylor Hall. Concerning the lack of high end prospects, it seems likely NJ would want quantity—Perunovich or Mikkola among others. I’d make a hard pass on a guy who’s a clear rental unless cap space could be cleared along the way such as by putting Allen into the package. I just struggle to see where it’s beneficial to trade defensive depth when there will be multiple needs in the next few seasons.

[theohall]

The names that keep popping up in the Hall rumours are Thomas, Kostin, or Kyrou, plus 1 1st and maybe Allen with Domingue coming back.

Doubt any of that happens which is pretty much what Rutherford wrote in an Athletic article last night. Armstrong doesn't sell the farm for rentals, at least he hasn't in the past. When one looks at trades for "name" players - the Bouwmeester trade - Armstrong talked to Calgary for over 3 months. The ROR trade - took over a year before Armstrong got the deal he wanted. The Blues and Armstrong can afford to be patient, so there is no need to rush a trade for Hall. Let someone else over-pay. Haven't seen a Blues defensive prospect mentioned in any of those rumours, even though the Devils need better defenseman.

[glen a richter]

Including Allen in the deal frees up some money for Pietrangelo. May be an upside to the trade, if not too many peak prospects go the other way.

Allen, Mikkola, Kostin?

[theohall]

Just as an aside - in 2021, the Blues aren't going to be able to protect everyone.

On Dec13th, Kostin took a seriously boneheaded Spearing major inside the final minute of a tie game for the Rampage. Yes, 4:11 of a major penalty carried over into OT, because Kostin lost his cool, again. They killed the penalty, but lost in a 15 round shootout. Per my Rampage source who watches all the games, Kostin deserved every minute of the penalty which shouldn't have happened. He got hit, didn't like it, even though it was clean, and speared the guy who hit him. Can't find video of it, but this is the kind of thing which makes him more of a trade prospect than a future Blues player.

Anyway,

7 F - Tarasenko, Schenn, O'Reilly, Sundqvist, Kyrou, Schwartz, Thomas, (that's 7 - assuming the last 3 are re-signed - and 6 of them should be playing top 6 minutes. Where does Kostin fit in, since he isn't a bottom 6 type player? Granted, Kostin won't have to be protected, just throwing out the where does he fit in if he can't get his head straight)
3 D - Pietrangelo, Parayko, Dunn
1 G - Binnington

Which means anyone else should be considered as tradeable, IMO.

[JCShutout]

7 F - Tarasenko, Schenn, O'Reilly, Sundqvist, Kyrou, Schwartz, Thomas, (that's 7 - assuming the last 3 are re-signed - and 6 of them should be playing top 6 minutes. Where does Kostin fit in, since he isn't a bottom 6 type player?

I've posted a lot about concerns over who we would lose. (Either here or at gatewayredbirds, or both) So I'll just comment on the quoted. I think, in today's NHL, you need a good, scoring (lite) third line. Sundqvist, Barbashev, Kostin, Blais, Sanford, etc, all have the makings of a really good third (and 4th) line, so Kostin could fit in there, and rotate in the top 6 as chemistry, injuries create a need. Plus, while I'm now convinced Thomas will at least be a good top6 guy (I'm always worried about prospects), the jury is still out on Kyrou.

Not saying Kostin is untouchable by any means, but there is room for him to be a really useful player on this team, and I would only move him for a really good return.

[theohall]

The issue with Kostin is his attitude more than anything. Any time he feels like things aren't going the way he wants - he seems to act out. See the WJCs last season. The recent spearing incident this season. This is why I'm not 100% sold on him eventually fitting in. What if he doesn't like being a 3rd liner? Is he going to keep acting out? He was drafted last in the 1st round with the risk being his character - which is still showing to be an issue. Talent - he's clearly got it, but hopefully he grows out of the teenage angst nonsense (I know, he's 20 now) which keeps seeming to show up. Just look at the difference in maturity level between he and Thomas. Thomas never acted out. He just accepted his role - even if it was being a 3rd line winger or occasional 3rd/4th line center last season. They are the same age. Kyrou, I know he's 2 years ahead of Kostin, gets dropped to the 4th line vs the Avs. Result - he scores a goal by listening to what's being said on the ice, reacting, and scoring a beauty of a goal. These are the things that make me not really consider Kostin as part of the Blues future, in spite of his talent.

[JCShutout]

I hear those concerns, and you could absolutely be correct, but David Perron had some "attitude" issues, and still takes some dumb offensive zone penalties. He's worked out okay. Some guys are late bloomers, and, as you said, he's 20. Thomas' attitude at his age is the exception. I was a moron at 20. Probably still am, but I definitely have a cooler head and pick my battles waaaaaaaay more than I used to.

As I said, Kostin isn't untouchable to me, but I'm not moving him unless the return is really good. Now Hall, that's a damn good return, though just for half a year, so its a tough call. I'd be wary of giving up Kostin AND a 1st (maybe two looking at what NJ got for Hall) for a guy who is likely gone in June.

[WaukeeBlues]

Cool thread on "Defensive Future" where we're talking about Kostin, Thomas and Perron guys...

[gaijin]

Cool thread on "Defensive Future" where we're talking about Kostin, Thomas and Perron guys...

You're sounding a little defensive there.

[glen a richter]

To be fair it was pertinent because the rumors I saw had NJ looking for defense and Mikkola/Perunovich were being bandied around. Moot now since Hall is on Arizona and smart by Army not overpaying.