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Postby execwrite » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:50 pm

I've changed my mind on trading players. Doubt the Blues will get into the playoff race although they are playing much better.

Of the five vets, I would trade Legace, Brewer and Rucinsky and try to re-sign Guerin and Tkachuk.

EJ can replace Brewer.
Sejna or Birner can replace Rucinksy.
Time to go with the kids in goal - Sanford, Cash, Schwarz.
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Postby BringBackZezel » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:52 pm

execwrite wrote:I've changed my mind on trading players. Doubt the Blues will get into the playoff race although they are playing much better.

Of the five vets, I would trade Legace, Brewer and Rucinsky and try to re-sign Guerin and Tkachuk.

EJ can replace Brewer.
Sejna or Birner can replace Rucinksy.
Time to go with the kids in goal - Sanford, Cash, Schwarz.


Guerin and Tkachuk are UFAs at season's end.

The Blues aren't going to make the playoffs...why wouldn't you trade them for ANYTHING before the deadline, then resign them in the offseason (I'm not advocating resigning them, I'm simply saying that if you really want them for next year, you can still likely get a couple very good prospects for them)
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Postby strocklen083 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:04 pm

execwrite wrote:Sejna or Birner can replace Rucinksy.


ha ha ha ha ha. . . . .

1.) Sejna? SEJNA?!?!?! Wow. . .can't we just forget this guy?

2.) Good luck getting rid of Rucinsky. He makes too much and has a no-trade clause. He ain't goin' anywhere soon.
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Postby BF44 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:15 pm

At this point, my goal isn't so much to make the playoffs, but make damn sure we make someone else miss them too (i.e. Vancouver last year).
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Postby Stl_Blues_1fan » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:20 pm

execwrite wrote:Time to go with the kids in goal - Sanford, Cash, Schwarz.


manny is the top goalie in the NHL right now (looking at the last 11 games)...a whole new person after his injury...as long as he performs at the same level for the next 41 games...we should be good...Now a rotation here and their...is fine...but Manny is the #1...just my $.02
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Postby Aode » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:05 pm

TC wrote:
this week's Inside Hockey power rankings wrote:29. St. Louis Blues (29): Speculation that the Blues might climb
back into the playoff hunt is misguided. Like the Coyotes, this
team is a fire sale waiting to happen. And with goaltender Manny
Legace starting to heat up, teams on the bubble will begin
conjuring visions of him becoming this season's "Dwayne Roloson."


So its impossible to make a run for the playoffs with Sanford and Cash?!? :roll:
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Postby Aode » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:09 pm

strocklen083 wrote:enough with the fire sale talk! This team is improved dramatically and they're starting to finally gel together. Why would you want to break that up by trading for a bunch of picks that won't be anything for at least another three years minimum.

I know i'm beating the dead horse here, but it just makes no sense at all! The only guy i'd be willing to trade is Brewer that is based on his pending free agency along with the arrival of EJ and the log jam we already have at the defensive position.

those guys at Inside Hockey don't have a clue what they're talking about. You know these guys aren't sitting down watching an entire Blues game. They're speculating based on stats sheets they read at nights end. Trading Manny at this point is the most absurd thing ever. why, after years of goaltending struggles would you trade a guy who over the past month has been one of the top 3 goalies in the league?

this is all nonsense. if we keep putting up performances like we have the past two weeks, we'll be right in the thick of this playoff race and considering the weakness of the division, we should have a better shot to leap frog all the guys out west that keep flip-flopping wins with each other

(note: i realize we're doing the same thing with Chicago, but Tuesday's game should have been a win. We all saw how 3 bad minutes can ruin a teams; effort. We should have gained 4 points on the Hawks, but i think this is all part of the growing process for this club)


I personally agree. The only players I would advocate trading (were it possible) would be Rucinsky and MAYBE Dvorak) Brewer is looking better, Legace is on fire, and you're right- we're pulling games down and making things happen. Luckily, we got almost 2 more months of hockey to further evaluate it and see if a playoff run is possible. If, by then, its not... well, trading at the deadline is never a great situation to be in, but its often necessary and beneficial if you aren't planning on pulling many of the guys back in the offseason.
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Postby BringBackZezel » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:17 pm

Aode wrote:
strocklen083 wrote:enough with the fire sale talk! This team is improved dramatically and they're starting to finally gel together. Why would you want to break that up by trading for a bunch of picks that won't be anything for at least another three years minimum.

I know i'm beating the dead horse here, but it just makes no sense at all! The only guy i'd be willing to trade is Brewer that is based on his pending free agency along with the arrival of EJ and the log jam we already have at the defensive position.

those guys at Inside Hockey don't have a clue what they're talking about. You know these guys aren't sitting down watching an entire Blues game. They're speculating based on stats sheets they read at nights end. Trading Manny at this point is the most absurd thing ever. why, after years of goaltending struggles would you trade a guy who over the past month has been one of the top 3 goalies in the league?

this is all nonsense. if we keep putting up performances like we have the past two weeks, we'll be right in the thick of this playoff race and considering the weakness of the division, we should have a better shot to leap frog all the guys out west that keep flip-flopping wins with each other

(note: i realize we're doing the same thing with Chicago, but Tuesday's game should have been a win. We all saw how 3 bad minutes can ruin a teams; effort. We should have gained 4 points on the Hawks, but i think this is all part of the growing process for this club)


I personally agree. The only players I would advocate trading (were it possible) would be Rucinsky and MAYBE Dvorak) Brewer is looking better, Legace is on fire, and you're right- we're pulling games down and making things happen. Luckily, we got almost 2 more months of hockey to further evaluate it and see if a playoff run is possible. If, by then, its not... well, trading at the deadline is never a great situation to be in, but its often necessary and beneficial if you aren't planning on pulling many of the guys back in the offseason.


you're both setting yourselves up to be greatly disappointed.

But hey, that's exactly what the Blues always do.
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Postby Helli » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:16 pm

as much as i like the current situation and whats happening with this team i wouldn`t mind seeing the blues trading some guys again for prospects/picks. I would love to get rid of Rucinsky and if somebody would take a guy like Cajanek i wouldn`t mind also.
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Postby ledzeppelinfan1 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:27 pm

BringBackZezel wrote:Some of you may read my quick statistical analysis of the Blues playoff chances posted here on December 20th:

http://www.letsgoblues.com/phpBB/viewto ... 897#412897

I decided to up date this since they've been hot recently.

Here are the results:

To be in the top 8 in the WC @ the trade deadline, they need to pick up an average of 1.727 points per game...which is more than what they had to average on Dec. 20 (1.62)

To be in the top 8 in the WC at the end of game 82, they need to pick up an average of 1.33 points per game. That is slightly less than the Dec. 20 average needed of 1.39....but still severely behind their current average of .825 points per game.

In short, they are further from being in the playoff picture as of the trade deadline, and only slightly closer overall.


What more is even if they win their next 10 consecutive games, they still would not be on pace to make the playoffs.


This analysis sucks ass.

First of all, if they won their next 10 games, they would likely be sitting right in the 8 or 9 spot...maybe higher...because they are already only 8 points or so out of a playoff spot at THIS moment, I would think a ten game winning streak would pretty much put them in a situation to say..."wow, with this momentum, we should make the playoffs...because we can do anything apparently."

In addition, with 42 games left they are just 8 points back. Anything can happen...

BTW 6-1-3 .750 1.5 PPG +5.8%
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Postby strocklen083 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:35 pm

ledzeppelinfan1 wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:Some of you may read my quick statistical analysis of the Blues playoff chances posted here on December 20th:

http://www.letsgoblues.com/phpBB/viewto ... 897#412897

I decided to up date this since they've been hot recently.

Here are the results:

To be in the top 8 in the WC @ the trade deadline, they need to pick up an average of 1.727 points per game...which is more than what they had to average on Dec. 20 (1.62)

To be in the top 8 in the WC at the end of game 82, they need to pick up an average of 1.33 points per game. That is slightly less than the Dec. 20 average needed of 1.39....but still severely behind their current average of .825 points per game.

In short, they are further from being in the playoff picture as of the trade deadline, and only slightly closer overall.


What more is even if they win their next 10 consecutive games, they still would not be on pace to make the playoffs.


This analysis sucks ass.

First of all, if they won their next 10 games, they would likely be sitting right in the 8 or 9 spot...maybe higher...because they are already only 8 points or so out of a playoff spot at THIS moment, I would think a ten game winning streak would pretty much put them in a situation to say..."wow, with this momentum, we should make the playoffs...because we can do anything apparently."

In addition, with 42 games left they are just 8 points back. Anything can happen...

BTW 6-1-3 .750 1.5 PPG +5.8%


i agree. think about your so called ten game winning streak. if they happened to reel off 10 in a row, they would def leap frog the teams at the bottom of the conference standings UNLESS those teams ALSO went on a similar winning streak, which isn't likely. This analysis seems to be based on the assumption that the other cellar dwellers go on similar runs. And I think we all knows what happens when people assume. . .

you make an ass out of u and me. :lol:
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Postby execwrite » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:25 pm

Best record in the NHL over the past 10 games - St. Louis Blues

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/standings
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Postby strocklen083 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:12 am

BringBackZezel wrote:you're both setting yourselves up to be greatly disappointed.

But hey, that's exactly what the Blues always do.


you need to have a little faith my friend. be happy that we at least have a team that shows up ever night and competes like a professional team does. you shouldn't call yourself a fan if you don't stick with a team through thick and thin.

i understand your pesimistic attitude, but you gotta try and have a brighter outlook for the future. this team is playing well in a conference that isn't that strong at the bottom. anything is possible in this newly concocted NHL, so don't just give up hope because the team got off to a poor start under a poor coach.
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Postby cprice12 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:17 am

BringBackZezel wrote:
execwrite wrote:I've changed my mind on trading players. Doubt the Blues will get into the playoff race although they are playing much better.

Of the five vets, I would trade Legace, Brewer and Rucinsky and try to re-sign Guerin and Tkachuk.

EJ can replace Brewer.
Sejna or Birner can replace Rucinksy.
Time to go with the kids in goal - Sanford, Cash, Schwarz.


Guerin and Tkachuk are UFAs at season's end.

The Blues aren't going to make the playoffs...why wouldn't you trade them for ANYTHING before the deadline, then resign them in the offseason (I'm not advocating resigning them, I'm simply saying that if you really want them for next year, you can still likely get a couple very good prospects for them)


If you trade away players that fans like (Tkachuk, Guerin) in exchange for a gamble with prospects or picks, you'll tick off some of the fan base.
I'm not saying this is a bad move...just giving a reason why the organization might not dump players just to get ANYTHING for them.
But if they pull a Doug Weight and resign here...that's different and a win-win for the organization all around...assuming they don't make a playoff run.
But I wouldn't bank on the resign thing happening with Tkachuk or Guerin like it did with Weight....but you never know I guess.
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Postby cprice12 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:18 am

execwrite wrote:Best record in the NHL over the past 10 games - St. Louis Blues

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/standings


They need to do that three or four more times....in a row. :D
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Postby SMS Bleeds Blue » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:15 am

cprice12 wrote:
BringBackZezel wrote:
execwrite wrote:I've changed my mind on trading players. Doubt the Blues will get into the playoff race although they are playing much better.

Of the five vets, I would trade Legace, Brewer and Rucinsky and try to re-sign Guerin and Tkachuk.

EJ can replace Brewer.
Sejna or Birner can replace Rucinksy.
Time to go with the kids in goal - Sanford, Cash, Schwarz.


Guerin and Tkachuk are UFAs at season's end.

The Blues aren't going to make the playoffs...why wouldn't you trade them for ANYTHING before the deadline, then resign them in the offseason (I'm not advocating resigning them, I'm simply saying that if you really want them for next year, you can still likely get a couple very good prospects for them)


If you trade away players that fans like (Tkachuk, Guerin) in exchange for a gamble with prospects or picks, you'll tick off some of the fan base.
I'm not saying this is a bad move...just giving a reason why the organization might not dump players just to get ANYTHING for them.
But if they pull a Doug Weight and resign here...that's different and a win-win for the organization all around...assuming they don't make a playoff run.
But I wouldn't bank on the resign thing happening with Tkachuk or Guerin like it did with Weight....but you never know I guess.


I'm not sure who would be "ticked off", other than the pipe-dreamers... and if the trades brought back prospects/picks with a high probability of success, I think that even they would come around.

I don't expect Blues management to throw veterans out the window for the first offer to come around (which is how I read the phrase "dump players"); but there should be enough buyers at the trade deadline to get some high-quality returns. Especially if JD can convince the Tkachuks and Rucinskys to waive their NTCs for the chance to go to a contender.

The Blues have 22 games left before the trade deadline. I'd love to see them win the next 10 -- the better the team plays, the better the return will be on those short-timer veterans.
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Postby bamabluesfan » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:18 am

BringBackZezel wrote:Some of you may read my quick statistical analysis of the Blues playoff chances posted here on December 20th:

http://www.letsgoblues.com/phpBB/viewto ... 897#412897

I decided to up date this since they've been hot recently.

Here are the results:

To be in the top 8 in the WC @ the trade deadline, they need to pick up an average of 1.727 points per game...which is more than what they had to average on Dec. 20 (1.62)

To be in the top 8 in the WC at the end of game 82, they need to pick up an average of 1.33 points per game. That is slightly less than the Dec. 20 average needed of 1.39....but still severely behind their current average of .825 points per game.

In short, they are further from being in the playoff picture as of the trade deadline, and only slightly closer overall.


What more is even if they win their next 10 consecutive games, they still would not be on pace to make the playoffs.


the trade deadline is feb 37 they have 22 games until then, I think the more important point is the games against other teams trying to get in. If the blues continue the same trend over the next 10 games as the last they will move up.

LA x 2 - they are +2 pts at 35
columbus x 3 - they are +3 pts ahead at 36
phoenix x 1 - they are +5 pts

if they make it to 10th or 11th by the deadline and continue playing like they are then I dont see a major sale, otherwise all the vets will be gone but weight and Dvorak probably.
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Postby BringBackZezel » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:03 am

If you're not moving player @ the trade deadline, you're screwing the franchise longterm.

This team is not making the playoffs. Ultimately, "ticking off" a handful of ignorant fans for this season, when the payoff is actually building a team should be the least of their concern.

There needs to be a firesale....even if they are in 8th place @ the deadline. They're not going to make the playoffs, and even if they COULD squeak in, they would have zero chance of winning the cup.

It's not a victory to make the playoffs this year. They did that for almost 3 consecutive decades without any playoff success. Making the playoffs this season is bad for the franchise.

Keep on keeping the faith if you'd like, but realize that NOT trading away Guerin, Tkachuk, Brewer, Legace, Drake, Cajanek, and other UFAs to be would be simply short sighted and downright ignorant.
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Postby bamabluesfan » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:06 pm

What you also have to take into account is that the lack of attendence will most likely determine what they do. Without the revenues early in the season they will make every effort to generate revenues at the most profitable point the playoffs. Getting to the playoffs financially will strengthen the team not hurt it. Professional sports are a business, and if the team can minimize their losses this year with an eye towards generating more revenue next year they should do it. Ask Pittsburgh how it feels to have a team full of talented young players and going broke or Ottowa for that matter. Both teams in the recent past have been bankrupt, and regardless of revenue sharing etc the current owners of the blues dont have the deep pockets d|ckhead bill did.

Also getting to the playoffs or at least putting on a good show of going for it will draw more people in than a firesale of all the marketable names on the roster.
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Postby execwrite » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:56 pm

bamabluesfan wrote:What you also have to take into account is that the lack of attendence will most likely determine what they do. Without the revenues early in the season they will make every effort to generate revenues at the most profitable point the playoffs. Getting to the playoffs financially will strengthen the team not hurt it. Professional sports are a business, and if the team can minimize their losses this year with an eye towards generating more revenue next year they should do it. Ask Pittsburgh how it feels to have a team full of talented young players and going broke or Ottowa for that matter. Both teams in the recent past have been bankrupt, and regardless of revenue sharing etc the current owners of the blues dont have the deep pockets d|ckhead bill did.

Also getting to the playoffs or at least putting on a good show of going for it will draw more people in than a firesale of all the marketable names on the roster.


Excellent point about the playoffs generating revenue regardless of whether or not the Cup is possible.
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